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User Info Well, Duh. This Is Why It Was Stupid in forum [Market-Ticker-Nad] * Item is pinned to the top of the forum
Tickergroupie
Posts: 783
Incept: 2010-03-24

Oklahoma
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@STT...
Read Luc Montagnier.
I really don't want to post his words here.
Frat
Posts: 7536
Incept: 2009-07-15

NKY
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KD wrote..
This is the primary reason I am not all that concerned about a Marek's sort of nasty. The "N" part of the protein is well-conserved and, in addition, there is material pre-existing cross-reaction in the population we've known about since Diamond Princess, and known why since last summer on a conclusive scientific basis.


Well, does that change if these ****ing ghouls get to an 80% or so vax rate? What is the percentage of non-vaxed we have to keep to have a decent chance of keeping a Marek's scenario as an outlier?

I'm absolutely not trying to beat the fear porn drum; we've had enough of that for the last 18+ months. And no, I don't expect you to have an exact answer for that either, because I don't know if it is a knowable thing.

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We're ****ed. There will be no happy ending here; there is no going back to 'normal.'. There are only bad outcomes and worse outcomes. And we don't get to choose those, either.
Jal
Posts: 1009
Incept: 2009-03-25

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The big picture.

Does a pandemic need to kill people?

There are still a lot of old, obese, people with diabetics that have escaped from covid.
Death rate of covid is a mere 0.26% of those infected.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/history....
Visualizing the History of Pandemics
By Nicholas LePan

June 30, 2021 Update:
Due to popular request, weve also visualized how the death tolls of each pandemic stack up as a share of total estimated global populations at the time.
Cheetah9
Posts: 340
Incept: 2021-02-15

Northern Alabama
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@SupertruckerTom -- What's the chatter on the CB and truck stops these days?...that is if you're an OTR driver. How about the many companies? Are they going to force the deathstab? To @Winder point as a pilot and the potential for air traffic coming damn near to a halt, the same thing can be said for drivers out there. Trucks still represent 50-60% of all goods transport in the nation. Stop the trucks, everything grinds to a halt. Same for cargo air traffic and freaking rail too!

The outlook doesn't look pretty when all this gets factored in.
Homelessnomad
Posts: 5
Incept: 2020-04-01

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So what's the mechanism for the vaccine ruining N protein protection in those who have already had + recovered from the bug? I get it not imparting that protection if you haven't had it already, but how does a vaccination that only elicits S protein response do anything to pre-existing N protein response?
Susanlauren
Posts: 747
Incept: 2021-05-01

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So is that SAGE reference an attempt at predictive programing? One out of three are doomsday numbers.

Yep, had a friend (pastor) who got the jabb because he and his wife want to travel. He says God told him that he would be protected from essentially "drinking poison". No problem so far.

God told me not to tempt Him. I guess we will find out who is correct. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Jc3
Posts: 263
Incept: 2020-03-02

South Texas 93 miles from Houston
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@Monty Congratulations!!! Practice, train, be safe. Ammoseek is your friend at times like this unless a store near you is stocked and you have cash. Also, should you have children now or in the future, rural 4-H clubs usually offer very good Rifle classes for children. Our two youngest spent more than a few "seasons" in our local 4-H class that was headed by a retired military sniper....so in addition to safety and gun control(how to hit the target) they also got pants and long sleeve shirts that helped hold positioning on mats, learned breathing, standing/sitting/prone aiming, trigger control and feel, etc.

Another great ticker with new information and what we'd known earlier. It should be real interesting to see how business owners and business heads, who were "fooled" or too lazy to research it themselves, react when they realize the damage to themselves and their organization and employees and friends. My guess is more than a couple will "snap". I know of one business owner who drank the koolaid, 2 doses of fraudXi-jabs, and now has a bit of brain fog and looks like hammered dog poop most of the time compared to 2019.

Reason: Typo: missed word
Bodhi
Posts: 4475
Incept: 2008-02-23

N. GA
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Winder wrote..
But I want to travel is the biggest reason I hear for people taking the jab. Oh the irony.


This was the reason my son gave for getting jabbed. He had been trying to convince me to get the jabs during past phone conversations, but on his visit last week the subject was never brought up.

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Ultimately, saying that you don't care about privacy because you have nothing to hide
is no different from saying you don't care about freedom of speech
because you have nothing to say. ~Edward Snowden
Tickerguy
Posts: 177977
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Homelessnomad -
Quote:
So what's the mechanism for the vaccine ruining N protein protection in those who have already had + recovered from the bug? I get it not imparting that protection if you haven't had it already, but how does a vaccination that only elicits S protein response do anything to pre-existing N protein response?

It's known as "OAS" or "Original Antigenic Sin." The body, when challenged, mis-identifies the intruder and produces the wrong thing, which fails to stop the infection. It's a well-known phenomena.

Coronaviruses have evolved to evade "S" protein recognition by the immune system, which is why they can infect you in the first place. They do this through relatively-rapid mutation and natural selection for protein complexes that the immune system fails to identify as threatening. This means when you get a natural infection most of the antibody titer is skewed toward "N" protein, which is well-conserved because that's the machinery that makes more viruses and, if it gets ****ed with, the virus fails in its essential purpose.

The problem with inducing a large "S" antibody titer is that if this is what your body responds with after vaccination it's the wrong thing. If, despite that, the virus gets into the cells your "N" recognition has, on-balance, been suppressed. This is backward since an infected cell, if it is not recognized as infected, will produce viral copies and then lyse and release them.

This is likely why the shots are non-sterilizing, incidentally -- but it is also why you get no more protection and may lose protection if you were previously infected.

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.

Jwm_in_sb
Posts: 3641
Incept: 2009-04-16

California Desert
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Nadavegan,

Yeah my mother who is boomer normie is incensed about the boosters as well as her boomer friends. They don't want to do that.
Homelessnomad
Posts: 5
Incept: 2020-04-01

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@Tickerguy

So the idea is that the body wastes its limited resources fighting on the S front because it's been told that's the better one, despite its previous training on dealing with N.

Interesting
Milkyway
Posts: 14
Incept: 2021-06-21

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@Tickerguy,

Thanks. I know you've stated these facts before, but the implication regarding the escape variants didn't really click for me until today.

Well. So getting some ivermectin just in case isn't that high of a priority anymore - unless I'm planning ahead for the few vaxxed people I really care about...

If it should turn out that vaxxed people will have more severe outcomes, when do you think that would show? Come autumn, when vit D levels go down? Or should that be obvious earlier?
Garrett
Posts: 51
Incept: 2021-04-20

Ann Arbor, MI
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Another brilliant article.

Side note: In trying to understand the vax herd immunity level, the "70%" number no longer makes any sense in light of Delta for two reasons: (1) most have already been exposed to the R2-R3 variants and (2) Delta is as virulent as chickenpox (R8 or R9). So, even if they reach 70% for the clot-shot, they will raise the bar again and say 90+% is now necessary. So, masks, protections, etc... will continue to be necessary. Oh, and your semi-annual mRNA booster (under EUA, of course) with unknown and untested long-term effects. Don't consider what could go wrong, NPCs, trust TheScience!

That sounds like what Orwell wrote in 1984: "The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous."

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This video explains what's happening: "MASS PSYCHOSIS - How an Entire Population Becomes MENTALLY ILL" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09maaUaR....
Tickerguy
Posts: 177977
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Homelessnomad - Natural infection confers a balance of response to a similar threat in the future. The vaccines, however, do not mimic that balance; they instead focus all attention in one place.

While that "one place" appears to work at first blush what we now know is that the protection is not durable. Plenty of people said "oh, don't worry, you get T-cell "S" protein recognition from the vaccines too and that will protect you."

As it turns out it doesn't and the actual protection wanes quite rapidly. There is now data that it drops to under 50% within six months. This is bad because failures risk promoting mutational escape and yet repeated jabs run the risk of exponentially-increasing risk of adverse events that screw you immediately and permanently (e.g. heart attacks, strokes, etc.) We know neither the shape of that adverse-event risk curve with repeated jabs nor do we have well-characterized understanding of the damage done to pre-existing natural immunity.

If you were previously infected you get very broad and long-lasting protection. The jabs appear to damage that, but the exact scope of that damage is not well-characterized at this point. We didn't take the time to find out before jabbing people, in short, and so now we get to find out the hard way.

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.
Bakerv
Posts: 102
Incept: 2021-04-21

Florida
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"They knew damn well that the jabs were non-sterilizing and had they looked and presented that it likely would have precluded a broard EUA from being issued in the first place."

So the asstards in charge of issuing the EUA are scientific retards who didn't have a clue about the dangers of a non-sterilizing jab? I wonder...
Tickerguy
Posts: 177977
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Garrett - If the R0 of Delta is what they are claiming then reaching population herd immunity via vaccination is mathematically impossible with a jab that has a half-life of neutralizing antibodies of about 60 days even if you could inject every single human being in the nation.

The two-to-four week window in which suppression of immune response occurs, which is now well-documented (before you have protection) along with the decay rate makes clear that mathematically you can never get there even if nobody resists as you will have to keep stabbing people every 4 months or so and even doing THAT fails because of the four-week suppression window. Never mind the likely exponential increase in adverse events with repeated jabs.

I doubt the CDC has recognized this yet, but they eventually will. They literally buried their own program with that latest data slide set and claim on the Delta R0

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Homelessnomad
Posts: 5
Incept: 2020-04-01

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@Tickerguy

Right, yeah the jabs are without a doubt a mistake.

Planning on keeping an eye on data amongst those jabbed after an infection, hopefully that damage to immune memory isn't apocalyptic. Why you would even bother after you had it is beyond me but I guess I'm not an idiot like most of the population.

Those who decided to get the jab without any prior infection are absolutely rat****ed though, that's pretty much without question at this point. Good rundown of the stupidity and/or evil of the powers that be as always.
Quantum
Posts: 256
Incept: 2021-05-18

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@Spaceace: It looks like your management is setting the stage to pit the vaxxed against the unvaxxed. Something like this might follow:

We are going to have to re-institute universal masking. We had hoped to avoid this, but a large minority of employees have refused to be vaccinated to protect themselves, their families, and their co-workers. If you do not enjoy wearing a mask, please encourage your co-workers who are unvaccinated to make an appointment in the occupational health clinic...
Winesorbet
Posts: 180
Incept: 2010-08-23

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I highly recommend watching the mini series Chernobyl and the movie Dallas Buyers Club. It is frightening how well these both mirror what is happening today. They do a great job of showing the fight of bureaucracy vs. science and the damage unchecked power/corruption/bureaucracy causes.

The next time you are debating someone about this topic, ask them who they rooted for in those movies. It's a great way to stop them in their tracks if they have two working neurons in their brains.
Stuftea
Posts: 5
Incept: 2010-06-10

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Karl

If a person has had only 1 of the 2 shots where would they stand in the mix?

People were told that the first shot is only 30% as effective as having both shots.
Jaytheblues
Posts: 23
Incept: 2010-01-15

New England
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A friend of my wife caught covid last year and recovered fine. She then got the jab and was hammered by it.. now she has permanent lung damage (clotting?)


Also I work at home part time and am required to read private messages on a service that connects people with caregivers. I'd say about 80% are requiring caregivers to have the jab. One poor teenager got the jab and is seeing a cardiologist for an adverse reaction that sent her to the ER.

lots of stories like this, of course none get reported


Tickerguy
Posts: 177977
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Quantum - such an approach is fertile ground for a "hostile work environment" lawsuit. Any firm attempting that is going to get a horse dick up their anus.

@Stuftea - No idea; there's insufficient data.

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Jollyrogers
Posts: 35
Incept: 2012-07-30

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My general instinct is to avoid experimental medical procedures, but I have to admit that the ongoing drumbeat of pressure takes a toll. Been a regular reader here for many years now.

It's not easy for me, a non-expert, to judge who is more likely to be correct, Vanden Bossche, who also disagrees with some of what @Tickerguy posts about cross-immunity.

https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/post/....

And counter-arguments as presented here:

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-....

The data seem to show short term gain in terms of less severe outcomes, even with the latest variants, although that protection may be decreasing. Surely booster shots will be necessary to extend that protection.

Long term effects? Who knows or can predict? Not me for sure. This is exhausting, but at least I was able to pick up some horse paste at Tractor Supply this weekend.
Tickerguy
Posts: 177977
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Jollyrogers - The most-serious problem with "take it, and the boosters" is that the data appears to show some sort of exponential risk (not linear!) with each successive jab when it comes to serious adverse events.

The shape of that curve and whether time (e.g. 6 months) resets it is not known because it was not looked for nor tested.

If you pull the short straw on that one you're utterly ****ed, particularly if refusing to go along with a booster schedule means you're left with binding antibodies and thus at wildly-enhanced risk of getting hammered for some extended period of time. Indeed, such an outcome could literally be a "coffin corner" sort of problem.

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.
Dingleberry
Posts: 94
Incept: 2011-11-06

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As an aside, I believe Karl has touched on this, there are a ton of folks out there who cannot get the jab for medical reasons already (e.g. those with blood disorders). It is a huge risk to them, medically irresponsible in fact. Russian Roulette.

I know some of these types in my own small circle of friends. If this jab is really pushed hard or even mandated, you will certainly see an undeniable spike in jab morbidity and/or mortality rates. Very difficult to treat a systemic clotting episode. At best it is a near-death experience usually.

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