Epstein: Suicide Eh?
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2019-08-15 09:58 by Karl Denninger
in Editorial , 231 references Ignore this thread
Epstein: Suicide Eh?
[Comments enabled]

And now the shoe drops....

Allegedly Epstein's hyoid bone was broken at autopsy.  While this is possible during a suicide by hanging it's unlikely.  It is, however, very common when someone is murdered by strangulation.

The reason is where the stress is applied when you hang yourself .vs. when you're strangled.  They're not identical acts and the force is not applied the same way.

Never mind all the other "coincidences"....

  • We were told there was no video due to an unexplained problem with the cameras that are supposed to be on and recording all the time all over that jail.

  • Then we were told that guards didn't make their rounds but logged that they did, and that the evidence for this was lack of them appearing on the videos.  Well, if the cameras weren't working how did those videos get reviewed?

  • It's alleged that Epstein said he was "afraid" of his cellmate and asked for him to be moved.  Just before he killed himself.

  • The most-notorious alleged child sexual abuser in the history of the United States wasn't being supervised adequately, despite the fact that pedophiles and sexual abusers, especially child sexual abusers, have a history of trying to kill themselves while awaiting trial.  This probably has something to do with the fact that if they're convicted (and they usually are) and wind up in general population they tend to be badly abused either physically, sexually or both by the other inmates -- and their "schtick" is really all about power, which of course you lose all of when in prison, especially if you're not a particularly big and muscular guy (Epstein certainly wasn't!)

  • It's alleged that Epstein was highly confident he would beat the charges and be released.  While it's possible that was an act, it's not particularly likely, and he was spending hours with his attorneys on a literal daily basis.  This does not sound like someone who is about to commit suicide.

  • He claimed the previous "suicide attempt" wasn't, and in fact was an assault.  Why would he claim that if it wasn't true?  Did anyone ever find the alleged means of attempted previous suicide?  I've seen no discussion of that.  Why not?

Is it POSSIBLE that Epstein committed suicide?  Sure.  It's also possible he committed "suicide"; otherwise known as arkancide.

Is this going to really be run into the ground as Barr has alleged?  I ain't buying that either, especially given the absolute lack of prosecution of anyone relating to the various Killary scandals nor the blatantly-illegal surveillance of the Trump campaign.  It's just another entry in a long list of utterly lawless acts by "well-connected" people who do whatever the Hell they want, law be damned, especially if it either makes them billions or sates their sick desire to screw young girls (or boys, for that matter.)

Never mind that Epstein's "girlfriend" is allegedly living with someone much younger and who has an alleged "spooky" connection.  Gee, how convenient.  Oh, and why hasn't she been indicted?  Still believe in those coincidences, do you?

The best part of this series of events could be that the people on both sides of the aisle finally stick up their middle fingers and refuse to believe the bullcrap coming out of the government at all levels -- whether it's alleged "economic" data, alleged "gun violence" that is supposedly "organic" (but maybe has a "bit" of help), or the so-called "wonderful" cops who all, to a single individual, have failed to arrest one single person for employing illegal invaders, even though some of the employees were wearing ankle bracelets and thus obviously had been busted, nor have they arrested one medical executive for collusion and anti-trust (federal felonies) and scant few have been arrested even when pumping millions of addictive pills into towns with a population of a couple of thousand individuals, an utterly impossible prescription rate that has contributed mightily to tens of thousands of deaths nationwide.

Indeed, in Philadelphia yesterday while under fire during a botched drug bust there were people dancing on the cop cars and jeering at the police.

"I mentioned this at 10 and since I was harassed during that live shot, I’ll mention it here, too," Hoff said on Twitter. "A major moment of disappointment this evening was watching a crowd of people taunt police officers, laughing and yelling at them in the midst of the gunfire."

A "major disappointment" eh?

Maybe if the government stopped lying and screwing the people up the ass on a daily basis the people might have a bit more respect for those who are obviously government employees.

No?  Don't want to do that?

Well gee, such a surprise that you get zero respect in return.  Respect must be earned; it is never owed.

And oh, by the way, if Kamala wants to try to make this a screed about "gun control" (and she did, while the bullets were still flying!) can you now see why?  Screw the people long enough, and hard enough, and I think you can clearly understand why those doing the screwing certainly don't want anyone but them to be armed.  Especially when you scream about "gun control" in relation to a felon with an extensive criminal record, who obviously will suddenly start obeying the law as soon as you pass some new constraints on law-abiding citizens defending themselves against jackwads like him.  And her.

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User Info Epstein: Suicide Eh? in forum [Market-Ticker]
Helluvaengineer
Posts: 94
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Atlanta
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I really expected another "event" early this week to get this out of the media. I guess the Klintons are so deranged they don't realize even the sub-90 IQ crowd is now on to them. Did everyone see this gem? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article....
Ocdawg
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Incept: 2019-03-14

WI- Home of undoing good....
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Spot on KD!!

It's over... not hiding it makes it official... AMERICA IS LOST!!

Karl, not one person is getting off their ass as you've suggested multiple times. I've ramped up the talking points, even less folks are listening. Blind, deaf, dumb and give me my free **** and cover my lazy ****ing ass... that Merica 2019.

Invest in lead.... as one of the very places where the audience understands what's coming... God's speed to all my Ticker "family"...

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Living just north of where gun control works... BAWHAHAHAHA
Dudefish
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I now consider this extremely UNlikely to be self inflicted. The reason is, when a prisoner hangs himself, the mechanism of death is very different from an execution by hanging. Execution by hanging involves a fall which produces broken vertebrae and a severed spinal cord. When prisoners "hang" themselves, they lack the ability to fall several feet. Instead, the manner of death is asphyxiation. No broken bones.

There are specific design parameters for suicide resistant cells. It's called the Lindsay Hayes Checklist. If you want to prevent someone from killing himself, you may not be able to make it impossible, but you can make it DAMN hard. Epstein wasn't in a suicide resistant cell. He damn well ought to have been.

Of course, there are no "arkancide" resistant cells. But if he had been in a suicide resistant cell, the purported suicide would not have been plausible. Getting Epstein out of suicide watch was therefore a necessary element of the plan.

Probably an inside job. Somebody who didn't make a lot of money, yet knew the cameras weren't on and that the guards were enjoying deep REM sleep while faking their logbooks.
Wozjoysfav
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tampa bay area
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FACT: hand me 3 30'06 180 grain cartridges and a decent shape M1 Garand to zero in at 100, 200 & 500 yard ranges. Then expect all 8 in a clip will be in the black 20" center with many in the 12" v ring! Have seen basic trainees at 500 yards miss the entire target! Sometimes rarely, they will hit the 2x4 frame edgewise & when the round exits, intact, the exit site is obliterated! That's aimed over open sights - scoped results will be tighter!!
Peterm99
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As you write, one cannot rule out a "real" suicide, but that possibility, IMO, is far, far from a slam dunk.

With the billions (perhaps even trillions) available to those for whom Epstein worked (whoever it may have been: CIA, MOSSAD, Safari Club, Saudi intel, etc.), one would think that they would have been able to "suicide" Epstein in a manner that would leave very little reasonable doubt that it really was a bona fide suicide.

Some might consider that the ambiguity of suicide or not favors a suicide hypothesis for that reason; I look at it as just another indication of just how powerful "they" really are - "they" are absolutely certain that this corrupt system will protect them, whatever they do.

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". . . the Constitution has died, the economy welters in irreversible decline, we have perpetual war, all power lies in the hands of the executive, the police are supreme, and a surveillance beyond Orwells imaginings falls into place." - Fred Reed
Mangymutt
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Some things to concider.

Many fibrous materials can be strengthened by adding moisture. Is that is the case for the sheets in epstiens cell? They were reported to be paper like (whatever that means) if they were paper like it indicates they could be ripped, once ripped they could have been woven into rope. He had access to a toilet, plus he needs to pee, so he could have moistened his rope.

If that was successful for him, the wet rope would give i.e. slip less meaning once in place make removing it much more difficult.

Next he would need two place to attach his rope, first being his neck, the other something that would hold his weight while pulling the noose closed.

Still on this side of plausable.

However, even the most suicidal person can and probably will panic as they reach the "OH ****" moment as the approach the point of no return. Most people who chose to off themselves do so very quickly, it takes the guessing out the equation.

After asphyxiation began he would have at least 4 minutes, but upto 10ish to contemplate his "OH ****" situatuon. Panic would more than likely set in and the fight for life would ensue meaning he would instinctively tried to release the noose.

So the fact that epstiens hyoid was broken indicates a sudden and tight nose closing on his neck very quickly. Would his paper rope and the object he secured it to hold that? Possible, but unlikely.

Would epstiens noose close securely but slowly as he pulled it tight. That is more likely, but he would or should have scratch marks around his neck, his finger nails should have his blood and skin cells under them.

Pedophile or not epstien was a clousal nasisist, who had gotten away with harming children for years. In his mind he did nothing wrong and would be freed. Why would he kill himself?

If he went to trial and was convicted there is a good chance the prick would take his own life rather than be made someone's bitch. But there again he thought himself better and smarter than ever one else. But I could see him killing himself AFTER conviction.

Did he really kill himself? Who knows as of yet.

But my guess is he was a dead man the minute he got arrested this time.
Hot-dog-guy
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One little note.

Somebody on zerohege said "are we to believe this man had the self discipline to strange himself and be choaking for air and wouldn't the biological compulsion to just take a breath be overwhelming?"

Nope. You aren't ideally suffocating, you can breathe just fine. I tried this myself as a teenager. We used to do this thing where you kneel down and hyperventilate and then stand up suddenly and we'd apply about 10 pounds of pressure to your carotid arteries in a classic choke hold headlock. It was fun. For the first few moments of recovery, you are totally blank.

In 5 seconds you lose consciousness, you go totally limp but you can breathe just fine. There is this rise in intracranial pressure and your ears start booming but it's not really all that uncomfortable. There is NO PAIN. All we need to do is cut off oxygenated blood flow to your brain.

If there are any young people reading who have thoughts of self-termination, don't do it yet. Give us a chance to talk through this. With our combined experience, we have probably gone through the same **** as you and we got the help required to see hope and work through it. All of us need help sometimes. There's no shame in this. I also hear that the folks at info@longtermstoragefood.com can help.


Emupaul
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All I know is, Buy more ammo. And stock your pantry.
Amused
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Incept: 2019-04-22

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Is it still Arkancide if it is in New York?

At this point rather than asking who did it we might be better off asking who didn't want this guy dead.

It's likely to be a shorter list if he really was a spook.
Mangymutt
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Vancouver WA
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Travis aka Hot-dog-guy

Due to the limited supply of oxygen you were giving your body by hyperventilating and your buddy cutting off the remaining
Supply your brain shut down and you lost consciousness. Even though your brain was deprived of oxygen your airway was never restricted and your body did what it is supposed to do and started breathing.

The rest was your body first restoring your brains oxygen supply (Brain first, body second) next your body was catching up with your little trip.

It is one of the reasons why a child holding their breath to get their way is laughable because the worst that can happen is they take a quick nap, and the parent gets some peace and quite for a couple minutes. However that is also the sensation that drives people to autoaphxiation.

I garuntee if you did that AND then had a plastic bag placed over your head, your experience would be entirely different.

If epstien had the wherwithall to do as you described before jumping from a height sufficient to break his neck, his body i.e brain would still be SCREAMING for O2 and he would have done anything within his power to restore that, even if he wanted to die.

And for those not familiar what is described above is called The Choking Game. It IS real and some younger folks do do it.
Dudefish
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Mangy. You only have "paper" sheets when on suicide watch. He was let out of suicide watch, so he had regular sheets and plenty of tie off places in his cell, lending initial plausibility to the "suicide" hypothesis. Inmates kill themselves all the time. (Google Alabama prison suicide epidemic). But the broken neck bone changes it for me. He had help.
Whitehat
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The People's Republic of New York
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every tyranny must eventually show itself. this is how it begins. people know the deal with the powerful. it helps keep them in line and allows them to justify their own corruption. result: culture gone.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
snow, seasons, distance and dirt roads: SSDD
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" (Gal. 6:7)
Aquapura
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South of Canada
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The meme circling the internet showing Epstein's last visitor as Hillary with a fake mustache and sunglasses is shockingly getting traction among some people I know far to the left on the political spectrum. Even the liberals are sick of the Clinton's and not buying their **** anymore.
Handyone55
Posts: 185
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In regard to police being jeered at during a shootout. I grew up working poor but law abiding in Wilmington, Delaware in the 1970 to 1990 time frame. Delaware cops considered everyone in my " class " to be a ghetto subhuman and treated us accordingly. Extreme insults and verbal abuse were part of any police contact. I moved away in 2001 and tried to forget about the #### hole that is Delaware. From 2012 to 2014, I worked as a temp meterman for Delmarva Power. I updated gas meters in Delaware. NOTHING HAS CHANGED WITH DELAWARE COPS

Some older houses have the gas meter in the basement, instead of outside the home. Try politely asking a Delaware cop to enter his home to fix the meter. Screaming profanity and threats to kick my ### were normal. I had a uniform, company ID, and a new Chevy truck with Delmarva Power Contractor on the side. None of these pigs ever accused me of not being an actual contractor, they just had to get an insult or two in.

I was a law abiding working man, doing a needed job for the local power company. I was treated like Tyrofeous the Crack Dealer selling outside the grade school. Tell me again why I should care about these scum?
Wifi
Posts: 1614
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Seagrove Beach
Online
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It's official...

NYC medical examiner rules Jeffrey Epstein death suicide by hanging

Quote:
Disgraced financier and accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide in his jail cell last week, New York City's medical examiner has ruled.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-medical-e....

Well that ought to put all of the conspiracies to bed, Thank goodness for the FBIsmiley

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Hurricane Evacuation Plan
1.Grab Beer
2.Run Like Hell
Tickerguy
Posts: 158548
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A True American Patriot!
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....In other news the NY City ME's face was found on one of the CDs in Epstein's safe at his Manhattan Apartment..... there was no comment from the FBI on that development or who else was in the image.

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Winding it down.
Rollformer
Posts: 500
Incept: 2013-02-13

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Well, if we knew the ligature used, the eight from which he jumped, plus his initial velocity, we should be able to estimate the force with which his gal was stopped. We should be able to tell by the size of the bone and its chemistry the approximate amount of force required to break said bone.

We wont know the initial velocity, but it can likely be estimated given Epsteins muscle to be.

Perhaps a journalist could request these bits of data?
But I am a cynical finance guy, what do I know?
Fumei
Posts: 89
Incept: 2019-01-08

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Rollformer, if the medical examiner gives that "information", I would bet it would be falsified to conform with the possibility that he committed suicide. Has the medical examiner also determined that the sole maker of the ligature was Epstein?
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