Greta: No We Don't
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2019-08-12 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Environment , 260 references Ignore this thread
Greta: No We Don't
[Comments enabled]

The screaming petulant child vomits forth:

LAUSANNE, Switzerland (Reuters) - World leaders must prove that they have listened to young climate activists after a year of protests has not led to any progress in the reduction of greenhouse emissions, leading activist Greta Thunberg said on Monday.

I WANNA DAMN CANDY BAR NOW!

No.

With all due respect to Greta, and she's not entitled to much, that she managed to get the world's attention because she's both young and cute means exactly nothing when it comes to authority -- or a demand that people "must prove they listened."

That you're an activist doesn't mean anything either.

You're 16.  You lack the scientific foundation or knowledge to speak with any degree of authority on any such matter.  That others claim there is an emergency and claim that it's backed by "science" means nothing either.  Repeating someone else's screed without critical evaluation just makes you a loud-mouthed teenager.

Virtually all teens are loud about something.  Big deal.

It's my opinion, as a 56 year old who actually does have a fair amount of understanding of the science involved, including gas laws, physics, chemistry and thermodynamics -- along with putting a lot of independent time and study into the underlying data, that this entire "emergency" nonsense is a scam.

However, I freely admit (unlike you), having taken many more trips around the Sun and understanding that my analysis, just as with others although they do not admit to it, contains enough uncertainty that I could be wrong.

Note that the so-called "scientists" who make these claims (1) do not put uncertainties on all their data, (2) don't expose their data in the raw, along with all of their analysis tools, to public scrutiny and in many cases have intentionally destroyed source data, and (3) do not admit that the claimed changes are subject to said uncertainty.  This, by the way, is proof that they're not scientists as the first thing you learn when studying actual science, any science, is that all measurements have an uncertainty and all calculations and thus results of same must carry all uncertainties through from one end to the other, without exception.

But in the end, even though I am convinced that all the climate screaming is a scam it doesn't matter if I'm wrong.  It doesn't matter because the United States, and the rest of the industrialized world isn't the fastest-growing source of CO2 emissions nor do we have the majority of the population of the planet between us.  In fact it's not even close!  Between Europe and the United States we have approximately 1.1 billion of the 7.5 billion humans on this rock at the present time.  Add in the rest of the "modern world" and you get a few hundred million more (e.g. Russia, Japan, Australia, etc.)

Most humans ex-Europe and the US live with gross energy consumption on a per-person basis that is a tiny fraction of those in said industrialized world.

Just as a start since you and the rest of the screamers will not face or acknowledge the math: India alone has over three hundred million people, roughly the population of America, without electrical power!  Over 1.3 billion people planet-wide have no electricity in their homes.

India produces roughly 80% of their power from fossil fuels.  Are you going to try to tell them to turn that off?  Really?  What about the 300 million people in that nation who have no electrical power at all?  Shall they never receive power in their residence?  How about China?  Roughly 2/3rds of their electrical generation is from coal.  In Sub-Saharan Africa only 43% of people have access to electricity with several nations in the region under 25%!  South Africa as one nation accounts for nearly half of the entire region's generation capacity.  Coal generates approximately 90% of the region's electrical power, incidentally.

Unless you intend to murder all these people or tell them they can never obtain an industrialized standard of living their energy consumption and carbon emissions will dramatically rise no matter how much you or anyone else would like it to be otherwise.  Even if the entire industrial world cut its CO2 emissions to zero, which would instantly destroy all transportation and agriculture in the Western World and kill a couple of billion humans through starvation as a result CO2 emissions on a global basis would still continue, after a short pause, to increase.

In other words you, Greta, are a screaming petulant child demanding the impossible short of mass-murder on a scale never before contemplated in the history of this planet -- and there have been many genocidal maniacs over the millennia.  Attempting to prevent the majority of humans on this planet from achieving that which you have enjoyed during your entire childhood and adolescence is the height of arrogance, pig-headed hubris and outrageous aggrandizement of your prissy, entitled youth.

That is the message you should receive from "world leaders", since the majority of them, by far, preside over parts of this rock that do not have any of the things you and your family have taken for granted literally since your first suckle from your mother's breast.

You may be cute and you may have a loud voice, but you lack even a cursory ability to examine the facts based on this arithmetic and set of facts.  Even if you were to spend years studying the underlying science after having gone to college and learned about chemistry through organic (including buffering reactions, which play a major part in this dance of climate on the rock we call "Earth"), gas laws, absorption spectra of various gases, thermodynamics, physics and more -- and having done so you arrived at the same conclusion you have now IT DOES NOT MATTER because not only could you not get anywhere in an airplane to deliver your screed without fossil fuels (which you'd understand the moment you studied the above subjects) and thus said 100% cutoff will not happen but in addition none of the nations and their peoples who currently are not enjoying a western-style standard of living are going to consent to living for all eternity in straw huts, hunting and gathering at subsistence levels while ****ting in the woods.

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Xanii
Posts: 117
Incept: 2011-05-09

Espoo, Finland
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For awhile now i have been looking at this green screaming and demads of action and i have concluded that all the arm waving and schematics are incomplete. One major component is missing: Red Terror. Only by applying that can these green new plans 'succeed'

I have personally witnessed here in Helsinki the madness of this eco Zealotry. What stuck with me most was the fact that there was 10yo kids demanding we stop all oil use immediately. And all i could think about was 'sure, lets start with your room. Lets take big plastic waste bags and bag ALL items that have oil used in them in the production and transport'

And now we have a gov here that doesnt have economy listed in their action plan. At all. But enviro is #1. This will not end well.
Cfskellvt
Posts: 50
Incept: 2008-04-08

North Underhill, Vermont
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Karl, in our day it was the 'Ozone Hole'. What ever happed to the 'Ozone Hole' theories?
Emg
Posts: 409
Incept: 2012-11-20

Canada
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We cut CFCs and the 'Ozone Hole' is still with us. Probably because it's a natural phenomenon due to the unusual weather patterns around Antarctica. I remember ten or twenty years ago some Chinese researchers found evidence of it existing for centuries.

And CO2 levels need to be much higher if we're going to ensure the future of life on Earth. If we hadn't started burning fossil fuels, in a few million years the CO2 level would have dropped low enough that plants would start to die.

Whenever the left are shrieking about how 'we must save the world!' you can be pretty sure they're wrong.
Zenmaster
Posts: 29
Incept: 2011-03-23

Memphis, TN
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I noticed that Ms. Thunberg had decided to "walk her talk" by crossing the Atlantic on a sailboat and not a plane. Then I saw pictures of the sailboat she intends to use.

https://team-malizia.com/en/greta-thunbe....

All I can say is, good luck with that.
Wifi
Posts: 1614
Incept: 2013-02-13

Seagrove Beach
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Who put her up to this?

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Hurricane Evacuation Plan
1.Grab Beer
2.Run Like Hell
Punch_rockgroin
Posts: 2471
Incept: 2008-12-31

Pacific NW USA
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"Day 51 at sea, still no wind. We were forced to convert the passenger (load) into provisions due to lack of supplies. Shouldn't have killed that damned bird."

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Put the boots to him. Medium style.
Tinman
Posts: 487
Incept: 2008-02-16

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What's the chase ship going to be burning?
Stee_man
Posts: 134
Incept: 2011-12-08

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"World leaders must prove that they have listened..."

To something that's being repeated 1000 times a day, 24x7? That's what I hate about political extremists. They think they are teaching us something that we haven't heard a million times.

I just stop people in mid sentence now. I say, you can have what ever belief you want, just don't try to convert me.
Cbracket
Posts: 24
Incept: 2012-09-27

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"Green" energy doesn't exist without a hefty reliance on fossil fuel.
Steel doesn't just exist in ready to assemble condition.
You gotta find some iron first...

Mining > diesel
Ocean transport > diesel electric
Ore refining > coke ovens
Land transport > diesel
Manufacture/finishing > electricity (80% fossil/nuke)
Lubricants > petrol

When a windmill or a solar panel goes live, is it ever able to generate enough "cost free" electricity to overcome the sunk fossil inputs?
Tickerguy
Posts: 158547
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@CBracket - No.

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Winding it down.
Jduwaldt
Posts: 750
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Orange County, CA
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I'm assuming the "goal posts" have been moved forward because papers from Finland and Japan say that (1) man-made global warming amounts to 0.01 deg C and (2) the Sun and its effect on cosmic radiation has a big impact on cloud formation which (3) the IPCC has never even bothered to try to model because it's too tough for them to do.

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Your ignorance is someone else's superpower
Jduwaldt
Posts: 750
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Orange County, CA
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Oh yes, I almost forgot: also (4) because the Sun is emitting fewer particles which will lead to less heating of the upper atmosphere, also meaning the Earth is going to start cooling anyway, which means the AGW crowd has to act NOW or forever lose leverage. This is why they need the atmospheric seeding to begin RIGHT NOW: it would be really embarrassing if the Earth started to cool without their inputs.

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Gun Control: because what's the fun of being in the Majority if the Minority are able to defend themselves?
Your ignorance is someone else's superpower
Spence
Posts: 3496
Incept: 2009-09-11

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Surprisingly, Michael Moore is backing a documentary film that points out that all this green energy stuff is actually not environmentally good.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/08/09/m....

Quote:
It turned out the wakeup call was about our own side, Gibbs said in a phone interview. It was kind of crushing to discover that the things I believed in werent real, first of all, and then to discover not only are the solar panels and wind turbines not going to save us but (also) that there is this whole dark side of the corporate money It dawned on me that these technologies were just another profit center.

Both know the film is going to be a tough pill to swallow. It was a difficult eye-opener for them as well.
Bodhi
Posts: 1210
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Canton, GA
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@Spence, heads are exploding all across La La Land.
Ahhz
Posts: 301
Incept: 2011-06-12


Online
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Zenmaster wrote..
I noticed that Ms. Thunberg had decided to "walk her talk" by crossing the Atlantic on a sailboat and not a plane. Then I saw pictures of the sailboat she intends to use.

https://team-malizia.com/en/greta-thunbe....

All I can say is, good luck with that.

Agreed, good luck with that trip for sure. I bet young Ms.Thunberg is about to get one hell of an eye-opening experience. She having never set foot on a sailboat before and about to make at 14 day (if lucky) trip across the Atlantic in an "extreme" sailbot, I sure hope she has some powerful long-lasting motion sickness meds at least.


https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malizia_II
From German wiki on the boat wrote..
The Malizia II offers little comfort on board as a regatta yacht. There are only two pipe berths , no toilet and no pantry . If the ship is faster than 15 knots (and they will run up to 25 knots), the noise below the deck becomes deafening.


https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/kein....
German atricle wrote..
Although Herrmann wants to give his passengers a small area of their own using curtains, it is so stuffy, cramped and hot under deck that every breeze brings welcome cooling.

And then there is the matter of the daily need. A toilet is missing. A plastic bucket must suffice. On top of that sits who, must, in the open air, under the sheltered roof of the cockpit, while the sailors are kind enough to pass the time under deck with closed bulkhead and constantly pour torrents over the Sllbord in the open cockpit. You crouch there, clawing at any object with your hands and praying to get ready quickly.

Besides, you squeeze yourself here and there. Or pour boiling water over your fingers to pour it into a bag of freeze-dried food. And all the while, the yacht's carbon case makes frightening noises, as if something were cracking or the ocean hammering against the thin shell with a club.

That's how it feels, the combination of CO2-free and fast.


Having been a Licensed Ferryboat pilot (river) ages ago, that sounds like a very un-fun trip to me. I wish they could/would set up a 24x7 live-stream so we could see what really happens, because I'm sure the canned footage they produce at the end will be all "happy happy joy joy, everyone should travel CO2 free."


Tickerguy
Posts: 158547
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She's going to get her ass kicked.

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Winding it down.
Fumei
Posts: 89
Incept: 2019-01-08

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Karl, if she is a masochist, then she'll look forward to it.
Acebarefoot
Posts: 689
Incept: 2009-05-20


Online
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Quote:
She's going to get her ass kicked.


Yes she is. We are also gonna see what she is made of.

I'll take the "She doesn't make it the whole trip" for $1,000, Alex!
Tickerguy
Posts: 158547
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Fumei -- That's true.

I'll tell you this though -- I've been on a number of well-found vessels; I grew up near water and at one time, before diesel prices went nuts, I owned a fairly large (45') power vessel. Never got bit by the blow-boat thing but been on a number of them too, including a couple suitable for serious offshore passages. I can trim sails and get the boat to point, although I'm not going to make any sort of claim to be good at it or fast. A passage-making vessel is an ENTIRELY different animal than THIS thing which has basically zero in the way of consideration as to comfort and is much, much closer to the "survivability" line on a routine basis than any passage-making vessel ever is, simply because of its intended use. Further, since she has zippo sea experience she's basically ballast; she'll be flat-out worthless as crew if not worse than worthless (in the way and a pain in the ass), ESPECIALLY if things go sideways and they both can and DO out in open water.

She has absolutely no idea what she's in for. I'm with @Acebarefoot on this -- if she actually makes it all the way across without screaming for mommy I'll be impressed. And if she does -- I'll bet she takes a nice jet airplane for the ride back home.

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Winding it down.

Whitehat
Posts: 1249
Incept: 2017-06-27

The People's Republic of New York
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wonder how many birth-control pills she has to choke down to avoid that special time during the journey.

as a sailor who supervised the construction of a few boats for friends, there is an epic amount of petrochemical product used in construction, not to mention that the exotic materials only increase the waste and pollution. the sails are often very short life as in one trip like this, and they are made from petrochemicals and cannot be recycled. the boat also uses very expensive metal alloys wherever metal is required. boats are notoriously difficult to junk; often the only permanent final solution is incineration. materials such as fiberglass and carbon fiber have the potential to be the next asbestos.

with the exotics we used to say that the faster the boat, the more miserable the ride. a boat that can keep itself in heavy seas would probably take twice as long for the journey. these trips are timed with the seasons to maximize safety and availability of wind. personally crossed the Atlantic alone in a floating tank, happy, and once delivering an ocean racer to the Mediterranean, not so happy, and this was a boat that still had creature comforts and a kindly movement in the seas. one of these boats, no ****ing way.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
snow, seasons, distance and dirt roads: SSDD
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" (Gal. 6:7)
Tinman
Posts: 487
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I don't know. Do a GIS search for her. You'll notice that she is basically the human version of grumpy cat. She never smiles. Something has been done to her or she is the next Hillary. Maybe she enjoys being miserable. To bad she wants to drag us there too.
Whitehat
Posts: 1249
Incept: 2017-06-27

The People's Republic of New York
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present company excluded i do not blame the 16 year old but those older than her. outside of refinements of knowledge a person her age should have developed enough critical thinking ability and been exposed to enough of the scientific method to make logical arguments and evaluate data and its sources.

it is just like the constant blaming of the baby boomers for the society created before they could even vote.

once a generation is intellectually handicapped, they can only compound the problems.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
snow, seasons, distance and dirt roads: SSDD
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" (Gal. 6:7)
Maynard
Posts: 1302
Incept: 2007-11-27

gig harbor wa
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So search reviles she has "Aspergers, on the autism spectrum"
Not saying her cause is good, but thats somewhat of an explanation of behavior if true.
Stee_man
Posts: 134
Incept: 2011-12-08

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How much will you bet that it's a fraud? They'll have service vessels where they'll relax and have hot food/showers.

None of that will show up in the video or journals about the voyage. They'll pretend there was no help and it was such a great experience.
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