The Tech Law We Need -- And Won't Get
The Market Ticker - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Logging in or registering will improve your experience here
Main Navigation
Display list of topics
Sarah's Resources You Should See
Sarah's Blog Buy Sarah's Pictures
Full-Text Search & Archives
Legal Disclaimer

The content on this site is provided without any warranty, express or implied. All opinions expressed on this site are those of the author and may contain errors or omissions.

NO MATERIAL HERE CONSTITUTES "INVESTMENT ADVICE" NOR IS IT A RECOMMENDATION TO BUY OR SELL ANY FINANCIAL INSTRUMENT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO STOCKS, OPTIONS, BONDS OR FUTURES.

The author may have a position in any company or security mentioned herein. Actions you undertake as a consequence of any analysis, opinion or advertisement on this site are your sole responsibility.

Market charts, when present, used with permission of TD Ameritrade/ThinkOrSwim Inc. Neither TD Ameritrade or ThinkOrSwim have reviewed, approved or disapproved any content herein.

The Market Ticker content may be sent unmodified to lawmakers via print or electronic means or excerpted online for non-commercial purposes provided full attribution is given and the original article source is linked to. Please contact Karl Denninger for reprint permission in other media, to republish full articles, or for any commercial use (which includes any site where advertising is displayed.)

Submissions or tips on matters of economic or political interest may be sent "over the transom" to The Editor at any time. To be considered for publication your submission must include full and correct contact information and be related to an economic or political matter of the day. All submissions become the property of The Market Ticker.

Considering sending spam? Read this first.

2019-03-12 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Technology , 129 references Ignore this thread
The Tech Law We Need -- And Won't Get
[Comments enabled]

We won't get anything like this, of course -- unless the people of this nation both recognize the problem and demand heads on plates to stop it, likely with the threat to put real heads on plates, literally, if it's not passed.

Why?  Because virtually all of the so-called "tech marvels" have business models that rely on screwing you in some form or fashion, alleging you "consented" -- when in truth there's no possible way you would consent if fully informed.

Let's just take one example: "23andMe."  The firm just announced that it will start including information on your genetic predisposition to diabetes in the reports it sends to you as a user.  That sounds good, right?

No, it's ruinously bad, because that information is not limited to you.  GlaxoSmithKline just invested $300 million in the company and thus now is an "owner" and "insider" -- part of the firm.

This of course means Glaxo now has access to your DNA profile.

Every one of these "tech mavens" has a "click through" consent.  The problem is that there is no way for you to give informed consent because all of these "consents" contain a "related business" or "future product and service" clause, whether they call it that or not.  That is, if the firm enters into a new line of business they can use what they have.  Likewise, if someone buys the company the acquiring firm can use what it has.

There are enough of these "interlocking deals" in industry that it's flatly impossible for you to give fair and informed consent to the future relationships that a company might have and the uses to which they may put the data they have on you with some future, as-yet unnamed company.  Glaxo, being a pharmaceutical company, has a great interest in knowing who might have some genetically-linked condition their drugs could work on.  That's not necessarily bad or good but did you give consent when you signed up for a pharmaceutical company to have access to your genetic profile?

What happens when that "consent" manages to get extended to an insurance company?

Here's another example -- one that's happening to you right now. You take your car to the dealer to have it worked on.  They log it into their computer, of course, which tracks all the things you've had done there and when, along with the odometer reading.  That helps them know whether you're in warranty or not, what might be needed in terms of service, etc.

Car dealers and repair shops are now, as a matter of routine, "sharing" (for money, I'm sure) that data with a host of other entities including vehicle tracking databases which your insurance company also subscribes to.

Did you give informed consent to the dealer to give statistics from any module in your vehicle it chooses to access to any number of outside parties at the whim of the dealer?  The obvious one is the odometer reading, which your insurance company can and does use, if it gets access to it, should you claim to be a "Sunday driver" but really are not.  You might not object to that, specifically -- after all, claiming to drive 5,000 miles a year when you really drive 30,000 is fraud.  But who says that data is limited to the odometer reading?  How do you know that the acceleration and braking profile of the vehicle's operation, along with time spent in various speed brackets, isn't in there too?  With today's "connected cars" and "assistance" systems, many of which include a GPS receiver in the vehicle for navigation how do you know its exact location at the time said speeds were recorded isn't in there as well?  What prevents the dealer from making a buck a service visit from you by grabbing every single bit of data it can from the onboard interfaces and uploading it, uniquely linked to the car's VIN?

Nothing whatsover, and yet there is no consent that is requested nor can reasonable, fully-informed consent be given since there's no possible way for you to know the scope of said current and potential future use of that data.  Carfax is one such organization -- but hardly the only one.  While allegedly you can "opt out" of Carfax this assumes you know all of the firms that are doing this sort of thing -- which of course you do not as you were never informed about it in the first place.

Never mind when Company "A" buys or invests in Company "B".  If both are public firms you might at least find out about it.  But if one (or even worse, both) are not there's no notice and consent requirement for you, as a customer, to allow the combined entity or the acquirer to have data the other firm obtained.  Indeed the entire point of buying such a firm is usually to get ahold of whatever it has amassed; for many of these firms that data on you is the only thing of value they have on their books!  While you might have agreed with whatever business principles and operations the original firm had when you signed up or consented to it obtaining the data in the first place what prevents some company with hostile intent -- as you see it -- from swooping in and vacuuming up whatever the other company has?  Nothing!

The law that needs to be passed is quite simple:

Except where mandated by publicly-disclosed law at the point of data collection to collect, possess and use personally-identifiable information including any tied to any unique identifier, such as a "device identifier", phone number, VIN, serial number that can be traced to a purchaser or otherwise a merchant, organization or other entity must, prior to collecting, possessing and using said information obtain personal consent and be able to document having obtained same, having given fair and complete notice complying with all of the following:

1. A complete, full and accurate description of the information to be collected, possessed and used including specifics on what will data will be collected, when it will be collected and how it will be collected.

2. A complete, full and accurate disclosure as regards the amount of time such information will be retained.

3. A complete, full and accurate description of the purposes to which the information collection will be put, whether it be targeted advertising, notifications of upcoming items or services of interest to the customer or any other purpose.

4. A complete, full and accurate description of all entities with which said information will be transmitted to or shared and the circumstances under which said transmission or sharing will take place.

5. A complete, full and accurate disclosure of any use of said data to determine pricing, availability or other "scoring" measures must be made at the point said decisions are taken, including the price or availability the firm would offer absent any collected data bearing on any model used for such determinations.  Said duty to disclose shall be prospective and not require a specific request by the consumer so-impacted.

6. Whether said collection of data is optional or mandatory in order to purchase, transact or interact with the product or service being offered and if it is optional by default the collection of same must be disabled (that is, "opt-in" .vs. "opt-out".)

7. No person who is not competent to contract under state and federal laws, including but not limited to un-emancipated minors under the age of 18, may give consent to such collection.  Any such consent must be given by a parent or adult guardian, the age of majority shall be collected, and any such consent provided by a parent or adult guardian shall expire with all such data being permanently deleted on said minor's 18th birthday.

8. All of the above seven provisions shall apply to any private entity that obtains said information whether by direct collection, business combination or other transfer and irrespective of whether the source organization is within or beyond the jurisdiction of the United States.

It shall be both a civil offense and criminal felony, with liability attaching to both the corporation and all persons within it that have actual or constructive knowledge of violations, including but not limited to the Board of Directors, the CEO and COO, for any firm or entity to:

1. Violate any of the above eight provisions.

2. Allow any investor or acquiring firm to have access to any personally identifiable information without first obtaining consent from each person so impacted prior to any such access taking place in the event of any private placement, business combination, investment or joint venture.

3. Fail to, upon failing to obtain said consent, prevent said acquiring, investing or other partner, customer or interested party from accessing said data.

4. Attempt to use any sort of "blanket" consent to bypass the continuing obligation to obtain consent from customers prior to any new relationship being consummated, including but not limited to phrases such as "business partners" or "future lines of business."

Upon violation the penalties shall be as follows:

1. For each person impacted by a violation of #1 - #4 above by any employee or firm a civil penalty of $1,000 per person so impacted, with each such person constituting a separate and distinct offense, payable to the US Treasury.  Each firm or entity so violating these provisions shall be separately liable for said penalties.

2. For each person impacted by a violation of #1 - #4 above by any employee or firm a civil penalty of $3,000 per person so impacted shall be due to the person so impacted as minimum liquidated damages, with each firm or entity violating these provisions separately liable for said penalties.

3. Any person exposed to adverse pricing, selection, offering or exclusion of goods or services as a result of such a violation shall be entitled to recovery of three times the amount of said impact in addition to the penalty specified in #2, along with all reasonable attorneys fees and costs associated with prosecuting and collecting same, whether said suit is filed individually or collectively.  No class or other collective action shall be permitted to reduce the penalties due and actually paid to individual persons under clause #2.

4. All corporate or other business personnel with either constructive or actual knowledge of a violation, always including but not exclusively the CEO, COO and all members of the Board of Directors of said corporation or organization, shall be punished by not less than five and not more than twenty years in federal prison for each violation, which may not be reduced below five years of actual time served, plus a lifetime ban on board membership in any public company plus forfeiture of an amount of personal wealth, not dischargeable in bankruptcy, equal to the entirety of damage, increased price or decreased availability that impacts all persons combined. All such financial penalties shall be deemed to have occurred as a result of intentional malicious conduct and are not subject to any state or federal limitations or protections against same, including but not limited to those applicable to retirement funds and primary residences, nor may they be paid by any third party including insurers, corporations or other sureties.

That would pretty much do it -- it would instantly end all of this crap.  You'd have to give fair notice, you would have to get a new consent whenever you wanted to do something like 23andMe did, your car dealer couldn't sell your service history to Carfax or anyone else without obtaining consent prior to doing so and neither could Google, Apple, Amazon or other firms filch location data and use it without telling you how, where and why.  Those who used such data to produce pricing or availability would have to tell you at the point of purchase how badly it was used to screw you -- to the penny.  All of this crap would end overnight.

It make all of the hidden extraction, extortion and similar schemes that are used by "big data" purveyors and warehousing outfits, including Google, Apple, Amazon, Carfax, Microsoft and others instantly valueless.  With a requirement to fairly disclose to you before a transaction takes place exactly what information was used to produce the pricing and availability presented, where it came from and the change it produced utterly all of the game-playing would instantaneously be rendered unprofitable and cease as any firm attempting that crap would be immediately destroyed.  Any sort of subterfuge would be met with ruinous fines that would actually go to the people harmed and the executives involved would all go to prison.

It won't happen because Americans are too pussified to demand that it does.

The simple fact is that you'd rather get financially gang-raped within an inch of your life on a literal daily basis.

Go to responses (registration required to post)
 



 
Comments.......
User: Not logged on
Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ
User Info The Tech Law We Need -- And Won't Get in forum [Market-Ticker]
Dvanderp71
Posts: 658
Incept: 2007-08-05

Amsterdam
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
In the Netherlands there are car insurers who offer discounts if you plug in their OBD reader into your cars port. So they have all the access to your driving profile they want.
You have to be so stupid to take that offer because *every little thing* they might find will be used against you if the worst comes to the worst - yet many take it.
Tickerguy
Posts: 156505
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
There are insurance companies that do this here too -- but THAT is voluntary.

----------
Winding it down.
Ingar
Posts: 31
Incept: 2017-02-14

Mobile,AL
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Karl,
Your proposals for stopping the abuse of the public are sound, but will never be implemented. It isn't necessarily that the American public is too pussified to demand that the abuse stop; we are being misinformed by big tech about the cost of all the supposed wonderful benefits that are being provided. The public is one big flock of sheep being shorn for benefit of the oligarchs who run the country. Our government , which has all the integrity of a crack wh*re with aids, will allow abuse of the public as long as they receive bribes from these con men.
Where is Maximillen Robespierre when we really need him?
Whitehat
Posts: 989
Incept: 2017-06-27

The People's Republic of New York
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
in USA states with OBDII plug in emissions system testing this has long been a way for the insurers to know yearly mileage. even before the port provided mileage data, the inspection technician would enter mileage into the inspection station's computer which they still do to this day. i imagine that it checks for consistency with the newer modern ports. so for at least thirty years in my state, mileage was data logged by the state. my insurance company openly stated that it obtained this data from the state over twenty years ago for rating purposes.

this means that even if a vehicle owner never enters the dealer service ever, and they have state and local OBDII inspection testing, there is no reason that this cannot eventually be used to pull other data from the vehicle and share it with whomever. the only nice way out is that with the exception of California, emissions testing is not required after x number of years.

everyone though that i was nuts when i preferred the dyno testing and/or static idle testing of vehicle emissions. this was an actual result not relying on the manufacturers to game their data port to the testing stations and one's car was not linked to a network. many cars self-tested just fine and still failed the dyno test because they were ****. this new OBDII stuff serves other purposes other than clean air so we suffer in two ways.

----------
There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
snow, seasons, distance and dirt roads: SSDD
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" (Gal. 6:7)
Tickerguy
Posts: 156505
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
@Ingar -
Quote:
It isn't necessarily that the American public is too pussified to demand that the abuse stop; we are being misinformed by big tech about the cost of all the supposed wonderful benefits that are being provided.

Uh, you just said the American public IS pussified.

----------
Winding it down.
Oliver1655
Posts: 150
Incept: 2012-08-02

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Bingo.... extraction and extortion is everywhere !

To the 23 and me and similar DNA robbers, insurance companies and anyone else seeking to price gouge and differentiate costs of the same goods and services to different people. (which is also a 15 USC violation)

smiley



Great outline of the issues and great penalties.

I'd add one more as long as we are proposing things.

Any prosecutor whether local, county, state or federal up to and including AG's who fail to prosecute this willingly on their own or fail to prosecute after being informed of such activity is automatically found complicit. They are then subject to the same as the executives of the company in question and are charged with obstruction of justice, given a mandatory $5k fine, and sentenced to 6 months in jail for each and every separate violation that they refuse to pursue and are subject to being disbarred for not upholding the law as written.

This cuts out the refusal to act like we have now where blatant 15 USC violations occur daily but nobody will touch them. If they fail to act or refuse to act once informed they are on the hook via fines and jail time too. Put a little of their skin in the game so to speak.
Bodhi
Posts: 995
Incept: 2008-02-23

Georgia
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Whitehat wrote..
the only nice way out is that with the exception of California, emissions testing is not required after x number of years.


In Georgia you can file for a senior exemption from emissions testing if you jump through a few hoops. 1-Be 65 or older, 2-Car is 10+ model years old, 3-Drive 5000 miles or less per year

Since I work from home I average only 2500 miles per year at this point. I have an OBD reader so I can read the codes when the ECM throws an error. On my vehicle it always seems to be the front O2 sensor which is easy to replace.

I also avoid doctors like the plague. This must drive Kaiser and Medicare crazy as they both nag me by email to get yearly flu shots (no thanks) and go for the "free" yearly checkup. Kaiser was also bugging me by telephone, so I've now got their marketing number redirected to the special dead-end mailbox on my phone system.

I'm also wary about what stores like Kroger do with personal data from reward card purchases. I made the switch to Wal-Mart a couple of years ago, whose prices are generally less than Kroger's reward card sale prices.
Tickerguy
Posts: 156505
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
Any prosecutor whether local, county, state or federal up to and including AG's who fail to prosecute this willingly on their own or fail to prosecute after being informed of such activity is automatically found complicit.

The solution to that is much simpler and requires no new law: The people need to grow a pair of balls and erect both a gallows and large BBQ right in front of the courthouse.

A little skin in the game? The people should make sure ALL the prosecutors have ALL of their skin in the game, all the time -- if they refuse then their skin goes on the BBQ and the result feeds the hungry and homeless -- and further, if by some chance their flesh is too putrid for even the truly hungry to be willing to choke it down then I'm sure we can find some hogs to demonstrate their best and final use -- turning same into bacon.

There is no real problem with the law when it comes to anti-trust. The problem lies with the people of this nation who have traded in their nuts for a gender-diversity participation trophy. You can pass all the laws you want but until the people are willing to insist the law be enforced and make intentional refusal and obvious collusion with the "titans of industry and health care" a capital felony with immediate trial and sentencing for same none of what gets passed matters.

Let me know when the people grow a pair of nuts so I can go long BBQ sauce companies. For now I remain short since I figure the odds of that are approximately equal to that of my being hit by an asteroid while retrieving my mail this afternoon.

----------
Winding it down.
Merlin
Posts: 33
Incept: 2017-07-25

Tulsa, OK.
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
"There are insurance companies that do this here too -- but THAT is voluntary."

For the moment....

----------
Weve tried the Soap Box, They censored that.
Weve tried the Ballot Box, They stuffed that.
Weve tried the Jury Box, They tamper with that.
All we have left is the Cartridge box.
Vernonb
Posts: 2359
Incept: 2009-06-03

East of Sheol
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Carfax is damned scary. I was amazed what I could find out looking at used vehicles for free.

With "23 and me" find it a wise policy to avoid anything associated with Google or its literal bedfellows.

People have absolutely no sense of circumspection these days.

As for as that dongle for the OBDII to "reduce your rates" most people I heard of doing that get rate INCREASES. They are primarily concerened about the acceleration and decelleration of the vehicle.

Once again we have computer analytics without the understanding of WHY something occurred. This is little more than blind statisitics. These devices are not made to lower your insurance rates.


----------
"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Emupaul
Posts: 33
Incept: 2013-04-17

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I have my main e-mail address. I also have a lot of addresses that direct to it. For example: walmart@my domain goes into my main address. Same for Tractor Supply, Lowes, Home Depot, eBay, car insurance, etc. If one "rats" my address, I can kill it and any future business.

I bought a used Dodge truck last year. From a friend of a friend. Cash. I bought my plates at the County. I /never/ gave anyone an e-mail address.

The local Dodge dealer sent an e-mail last month with a deal for an oil change and tire rotation. To my main e-mail address. I have never given my address to the dealer.

I smell a rat. I just don't know where it is.
Asimov
Posts: 110795
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee Eastern Time
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
What is this emissions testing crap? You mean they actually do that?!? To your CAR!?

While there is emissions testing in TN, it's limited to just 5 (7?) counties. None of them around here.

----------
It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Analog
Posts: 1628
Incept: 2010-12-29

arkansas ozarks
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
The local Dodge dealer sent an e-mail last month with a deal for an oil change and tire rotation. To my main e-mail address. I have never given my address to the dealer.

I smell a rat. I just don't know where it is.


State DMV probably.

When HD (symbol HOG) went public mid 80's i got a call from a stockbroker offering IPO at $14 a share.
I was too naive to leap on it.
I did though ask how he knew i'd recently bought one - his reply "DMV in Tallahassee" .

A few years later i got a swarm of letters and phonecalls from exporters requesting to buy my '83 Ford Ranger diesel .
The one i asked said he'd found me the same way.

Privacy is long dead .
"Big Brother is alive and well and living in The Cloud."

a.




----------
Never trust a computer with anything important.

Reason: clarify who's HD
Bodhi
Posts: 995
Incept: 2008-02-23

Georgia
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Asimov wrote..
What is this emissions testing crap? You mean they actually do that?!? To your CAR!?

While there is emissions testing in TN, it's limited to just 5 (7?) counties. None of them around here.


Same here in Georgia. It's only the 13 counties comprising metro Atlanta that are required to get yearly emissions tests. Unfortunately my county is included although we are in the north boonies.
Tickerguy
Posts: 156505
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Ill-Noise, when I lived there, had this scam. You needed an annual emissions sticker or it was a nasty fine, but it was a tailpipe sniffer test -- you pulled in, they stuck an inductive pickup (so the computer could read the RPM of the engine) on the hood and a sniffer up the asspipe of the car, then you ran the RPM up and down with the pedal as instructed by the display on the wall.

If you passed you were good; if you failed you had to go get it fixed within 30 days and come back for another one. $20 if I remember correctly, so nice scam for the company running it. Diesels were, at the time, exempt.

WEEEEELLLLL a buddy of mine had a small diesel truck. They sent him a notice and I offered to take it to the place for him while he was working since they were only open on Saturday for a few hours in the morning and the place was invariably MOBBED on Saturdays. I went, explained to the nice guy that the truck had no ignition and was exempt, he INSISTED on testing it anyway. It couldn't (of course) get an RPM reading since there were no spark plugs. He didn't care; told me "hold this RPM", he pushed a button, "Hold that RPM", etc. It "passed" and he issued the sticker....

Weeeeeellll the reason diesels were exempt is that their exhaust DESTROYED the sensors in their tailpipe sniffers. Driving by there for the next couple of months there was always one lane that never had any cars in it. Gee, I wonder why smiley

The OBD "tests" are in many ways worse. They do not test anything other than that the computer is happy. There is a very nice cottage industry out there that specifically games these. Re-flashing the ECU to increase output and driveability doesn't by ITSELF cause a problem provided the emissions are still below limits, but many of these places will be happy to "tune out" EGR, for example and yet not report it faulted. Same for DPFs on diesels.

If you have a car that's out of the emissions warranty some of these systems are VERY expensive to fix. A dead DPF is invariably $2,000 because on a pax car or light truck they put the ****ing cat in the same housing; there's nothing wrong with the cat but you get to buy a new one ANYWAY and that turns a $300 part into a $1500 one. EGR coolers on many newer vehicles with cooled or (worse, 2-stage) EGR are god-awful expensive (north of $1,000) and a leak in one can destroy the engine if the coolant goes back into the cylinder. $1,000 for the cooler plus labor to change it (it's invariably a five-alarm pain in the ASS to get to it too, often a full day's labor so figure $1k in labor as well) or $300 for an ECU reflash that makes it "disappear" in the ECU and then you put a block-off plate where the gasket goes and re-route the coolant hoses. Which do you think people pick?

Uh huh.

----------
Winding it down.

Analog
Posts: 1628
Incept: 2010-12-29

arkansas ozarks
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Convinces me rather than lay out north of 40K for a status symbol
i'd buy a clean '57 Thunderbird .
It'll appreciate not depreciate
i can fix it myself

and i can get a vanity license plate "4Q2EPA

old jim

----------
Never trust a computer with anything important.
Whoknew
Posts: 58
Incept: 2013-04-08

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
As stated by others before me, your proposal is sound, but I expect nothing of the sort to actually come to pass. The scams must go on and we must continue to be robbed blind.

Hearing about this sort of stuff just adds another check to my "dinosaur" tech that I refuse to "upgrade" from and my "old-fashioned" and "authority-fighting" habits in my mind, though. Here again is another instance.

In the case of my vehicles, since you brought them up as an example, a repair shop may get and share an odometer reading--though the odometer on the '63 quit counting, so sorry!--but that's nearly all they'll get. Even my latest model vehicle is too old to allow anything but manual entry of data in a computer so if it's not visible at the time of repair, it never happened. Plus, since it's not even a vehicle that was ever meant to be distributed in this country, they have to lie to their computers about the VIN and model just to get it through the system. Not that I try to get by with fraud against the insurance company or anything, but they're going to have to work hard if they want to steal that information (same goes for any other corporation or government entity).

On a related note, let's mention something that I have a pet peeve about: All these store "discount" cards (supermarkets come to mind...) and the information those companies are gathering and selling with those little programs. What they don't know about me is that I don't have any of their cards and use random memorized numbers if I must shop there.
Whitehat
Posts: 989
Incept: 2017-06-27

The People's Republic of New York
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
yep on the ECU remapping and fixing to always "pass" emissions. there are those who know how to do it. some very modern cars will actually go into limp home mode of reduced power and trans locked in a single range if the EGR circuit is not reporting correctly. expect to have a lot of remaps for this situation.

will admit that the dyno test with tailpipe sniffer was needed and effective. since the car was doing its thing as programmed an actual result was obtained and for every unit in the testing area. scared a lot of the dirty manufacturers. used to see brand new Jeeps, Mercedes Benz, Chrysler cars fail spectacularly. my older Japanese car out of tune, needing an oil change exceeded the same standards. it was also kind of fun actually being near a car running at high speed under varying conditions. one got to see what were really ****boxes. some high end cars glugged and coughed and made the most awful sounds regardless of how new they were, V8 smoothness, yea BS. while some lesser cars like mine sounded really nice. the difference in traffic pollution was massive when the regulatory authorities did this. this is how things are supposed to be done, for the actual reason in a way that gets the required results, not some other hidden BS. as a person with a nose for chemicals, i can tell you without doubt that the switch to CO2 reduction available only through economy at all costs has made cars worse. one can smell it from the tailpipes. it is a subtle change, but all of the manufacturers are gaming the system since their ECU only needs to tell the DMV system what it needs to hear.

----------
There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
snow, seasons, distance and dirt roads: SSDD
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" (Gal. 6:7)
Tickerguy
Posts: 156505
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
yep on the ECU remapping and fixing to always "pass" emissions. there are those who know how to do it. some very modern cars will actually go into limp home mode of reduced power and trans locked in a single range if the EGR circuit is not reporting correctly. expect to have a lot of remaps for this situation.

The DPF situation is at least as bad and in some cases worse; modern diesels with them will put up a "XX miles to NO RESTART" on a detected failure AND THEY MEAN IT.

You either fix it, tune it out OR THE VEHICLE IS SCRAP.

----------
Winding it down.
Redjack
Posts: 135
Incept: 2018-01-29

Iowa
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Some insurance companies are putting pressure on employers to force genetic testing.

My company has stated it (Our HR is kind of silly/honest), but it isn't mandated yet.

But it will be.

Just another step to the point where the masses scream for government healthcare.
Reluctantdebtor
Posts: 312
Incept: 2010-03-05

ohio
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Emissions testing? Holy crap.
Fortunately, in my area, the yearly "inspection" is a 15-minute, $30 formality.
My car is 28 years old and I've had it for twenty of them. I guess it has some kind of a computer in it. I drive cars until they die and this one has a strong will to live, despite essentially zero maintenance. It's a Toyota, of course - made in the USA.
Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ