The Market Ticker
Rss Icon RSS available
Fact: There is no immunity or protection against The Law of Scoreboards.
Did you know: What the media does NOT want you to read is at
You are not signed on; if you are a visitor please register for a free account!
The Market Ticker Read Message in The Market Ticker
Top Forum Top Login FAQ Register Clear Cookie Logout
Page 2 of 8  First12345678Last
 The Bill To Fix Health Care - Permanently
Tolonaro 5 posts, incept 2010-06-10
2017-03-30 19:36:35

I like what you are proposing. I'll bring up another related problem though. Medical schools and medical liscensing. Medical schools have been artificially limited - to raise the pricing power of doctors. Related, I am told that a local school offering practice opportunities for specialty doctors is changing the rules to prevent Osteopathic doctors from getting the needed experience to be liscensed.
Again a new doctor has to pass a liscensing exam so difficult that most doctors take a year after medical school to study specificually for the test. A doctor one or more years after beginning practice is not able to pass the test (all are grandfathered after once passing). First of all, if the training is so bad, they need to change the training. Secondly, immigrant doctors have a priority on the immigration list - but find it impossible to pass this test. Result, insufficient doctors to actually treat all that have needs.
So add this to your proposal. Racketeering charges for anyone limiting medical training and removing any testing not required of all doctors not more than every 5 years.
Trinityalpsgal 43 posts, incept 2017-03-30
2017-03-30 22:34:33

Bravo. Well done. You are refining your work Karl, and it is more powerful than ever.

There is an incredible level of detail here. There are tangible, actionable, quantifiable, next steps for UNDERSTANDING how we achieve Permanent Care for ALL. Youve outlined a clear pathway to getting us there.

I challenge you - my fellow commenters, to engage in a revolutionary act and pass the contents of this post on to your representatives without delay. I pledge to do it Friday morning. Will you do the same?

In addition, I ask Karl for his support to brand his message so that it might have maximum impact in the marketplace of ideas (or should I say the marketplace of fear and desperation?). We all know that this will need to be done so that the message can be shared on a wide scale. It would involve naming the plan/program, creating a logo/symbol/signifier (we need more than sporks for this task), writing up the key aspects in a focused/overview form plus delivering the detail on How It Works (from this post), including a Q&A/FAQ page.

Who do we have out there? Who will step forward to move this initiative to the next step? Karl has given us years of insightful guidance on health care. He has great integrity on the subject since he took control of his own personal health. Lets get behind him and bring this one home!

I am even willing to get on a call with any of you who might show up to discuss the way forward.

This issue hits home for me personally. My husband passed away in December (at home, I was the caregiver) after a long fight against several cancers. No freeking hospitals or chemo. Only organic infused grapeseed cannabis oil + LOVE. Lets just say that I understand intimately that there is a better way forward.

This is a fight worth having. Remember, YOU have nothing if you do not have your health!

I am ready to do something about it. How about you?
Dennisglover 1k posts, incept 2012-12-05
2017-03-30 22:42:26

The thing that has been clear in my mind since I read the first of the tickers on this topic, is as follows:

"Repealing and replacing" the PPACA is a complete and utter nothing, but if and only if we can get movement on the actual SOMETHING. The actual SOMETHING is enforcing the 127-year old Sherman Act, and the 100+ year old Clayton Act, and the Robinson-Patman Act, and all of the other antitrust legislation that already exists. In other words, NO NEW LAW IS NECESSARY. Bring these ideas to the forefront, and get it some traction, and neither PPACA nor AHCA is anything at all!

The AHCA was no more than a sop to "an idea of something", said something in fact being nothing. It was a perfect representation of the old and failed maxim that says, "It's better to do something and be wrong than to do nothing and still be wrong."

Well, if it's WRONG, it's WRONG!!!!!

Here it is: Enforce the Rule of Law. Pursue it relentlessly. Embrace it. Follow through.

I'm not a football coach, but does once being a bandmaster count? The best bandmaster I ever knew always called me "coach". I didn't mind. But I get it. These ideas have to get some attention, some traction, or they go simply nowhere.

Maybe it's a tiny glimmer of hope, but I did see and hear Hannity and Gingrich, just a few minutes ago, talk a very little bit in a vein that might mean they're getting the idea. A big part of the discussion seemed to be the Trump scolding (and threat) toward the "House Freedom Caucus" for their opposition to AHCA, sort of delivering a spanking to Paul Ryan. (Now Hannity is talking to Ingraham about Farkas and all of that foolishness, which likely is both nothing now and will come to nothing.)

Dennisglover 1k posts, incept 2012-12-05
2017-03-30 23:11:57

Susan Marie, if God will grant me the grace to express it well, please understand that many others know the kind of time you are going through, and we stand with you in this, too. That is first.

Now, you have also expressed yourself very, very well in this post, your very first. These ideas, and this "thing", have grown slowly (as it must have done, for it's bigger than it appears), and possibly there is more growth to come. Karl has expressed very well, very logically, and very persuasively, the position we must take and hold, a position I am just beginning to believe we will hold. And we will prevail, after whatever type or length of struggle is to come.

If struggle is to come (and it is), then let us on to the struggle. Please contact me, and let's talk about what we can put together to advance Karl's ideas.

Welcome aboard!

Trinityalpsgal 43 posts, incept 2017-03-30
2017-03-30 23:12:09

@Dennisglover re:

Enforce the Rule of Law. Pursue it relentlessly. Embrace it. Follow through.

Agree that this would be the most direct path to undoing all that is in place. There are people who can wrap their minds around it (and fight for it) but my guess is that they are the minority.

However, Karl points out a realistic first step. Start by making a case for what PERNAMENT healthcare would look like and for what it would cost. Then present the plan for how we get there. Unless folks understand where we're going - what's possible - they are not capable of supporting a full-blown tear down.

Once the case for Permanent HC is made and accepted you must insure that the obstacles are eliminated - PERNAMENTLY. So you follow your prescription and Enforce the Rule of Law. It gets done as a component in support of Permanent HC strategy and not as a stand-alone tactic.
Orionrising 145 posts, incept 2017-01-26
2017-03-30 23:15:42

the amount of money this would release would be phenomenal. Me and my employer have paid more for my family plan over the last 6 years then the combined values of my house and vehicles... It would also actually increase taxable income as well as it would decrease pretax payments for employer plans for many....
Dennisglover 1k posts, incept 2012-12-05
2017-03-31 07:24:27

Yes, @Trinityalpsgal, I am a sort of "get directly to the point" fellow, who also understands there are often "fits and starts" along the way. Of course, there's always the pressure of time, and the time remaining to "get something done (right or wrong, maybe not)" is probably quite short.

I agree wholeheartedly with your idea that getting traction with the idea of permanency is exactly the prescription. Congress can pass all kinds of new acts, and Presidents can sign them into law, but what can any of that possibly mean in the face of very old black-letter law that has been ignored for far too long?

Maybe part of the attack (and I can only call it that) is to force the issue toward the idea that if a law exists, but is not going to be enforced, then why not abandon it formally and entirely, rather than keeping it around as a useless husk, dried and brittle and dead, that will never be used. The opposition understands quite well that this is an asymmetric war in which we are involved; we certainly must understand that as well. The opposition gets the idea that pressure is aptly applied where and when it will have the most effect, and relieved when it does not have effect, if only to be renewed when its effectiveness grows again.

The enemy is clever, and smart, they are facile and can appear to be anything they wish. But in the face of Truth, they cannot appear to represent the Truth.

So the idea is to choose the battlefield and the fight, to consolidate and focus when and where possible, and to move forward with the war as we can create opportunity, or as it is presented to us. Is doing so a deceptive act? Of course it is. Is it also a war? Of course it is.

Now let us prosecute the war, for the hour is late.

Trinityalpsgal 43 posts, incept 2017-03-30
2017-03-31 07:24:40


Am reflecting with you on the HUGE amount of money/potential to be freed up. Not to mention the economic security these funds would provide.

In my own world it would be around $500.00 a month.

As a self-employed person, my monthly Anthem Blue Cross premium is at $618.00 (for a person with zero health issues and zero prescriptions).

I used to buy the catastrophic plan in the early 2000's for $95.00/mo. Paid cash for everything else (like visits to the skin doctor)(one too many Daytona Beach spring break sunburns). The doctors back then even gave cash discounts! I

Pitz 929 posts, incept 2010-04-08
2017-03-31 07:25:03

Credential protection is also a giant problem in the health care sector, whereby doctors have effectively rigged the system to make it nearly impossible for experienced nurses to upgrade their credentials to become full-blown doctors (short of going back to school and starting completely from scratch). Same with optometrists becoming opthamologists, and so on and so forth. Full integration of the education system for healthcare professionals is required so that the "top up" training required to upgrade skills is purely additive (and recognizes professional experience and on-the-job-learning), not redundant and duplicative to protect a professional credential cartel/monopoly.
Pitz 929 posts, incept 2010-04-08
2017-03-31 07:25:12

Further to my previous comment, dental therapists and dentists too. By the time a dental therapist has been on the job for a decade, they've probably seen most of what there is to see. Let 'em take a 2-3 year course to upgrade to a full dentist and watch that dentist compensation and procedure pricing fall back down to Earth.
Steveparkermd 3 posts, incept 2017-03-31
2017-03-31 07:25:24

I've only read through Karl's proposal once, and admit I don't yet fully understand it. But it would undoubtedly be a major improvement over our current healthcare and insurance system.

I'll link to it at a couple of my humble blogs.

I fully expect our rulers to ignore these reforms, especially after Trump's tweet about the Freedom Caucus: The Freedom Caucus will hurt the entire Republican agenda if they dont get on the team, & fast, he wrote. We must fight them, & Dems, in 2018!.

Trinityalpsgal 43 posts, incept 2017-03-30
2017-03-31 10:38:37

Folks here at Market Ticker have the ability to consume BIG ideas and complex proposals. Anyone who has been following Karl over time knows he is a man of many words.

Am in the process of producing a 1-2 page impact document (with links to this site) that we could use when sharing this subject with our friends, representatives, and influencers.

The process of writing it has moved the issue into greater clarity for myself - and perhaps it would do the same for others.

Before making this document available it would need input from Karl and other supporters. Would you be interested in reviewing?

Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2017-03-31 10:39:00

Of course.

Note the addition from this morning in the budget impact section:


"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."

Keenan 537 posts, incept 2013-01-11
2017-03-31 11:46:14

I've had several dental procedures performed at the local university which incorporates many of the points included in Tickerguy's plan: The school policy provides an itemized written quote for the patient who has the option to accept or decline individual items, no adders for any unforeseen problems, prices are the same regardless of the manner of payment, payment is billed per item as you go, the quotes are good for as long as you're in the program. I've brought x rays from other dental provides which they've used instead of shooting new ones. Prices are typically 1/4 to 1/2 of private practice prices. If dental schools can operate this way, the wider medical community has no excuse, especially armed with modern technology.

Granted the program exists to provide training but I found the care has been excellent. Procedures are performed by advanced students under tutelage and guidance of an instructor every step of the way, and the students are motivated to be thorough, taking no short cuts. That there are no hidden agendas to inflate the bill to, say, buy a boat is a big plus.

I'm circulating the Ticker to all of my congress reps and associates.
Topgun 60 posts, incept 2016-09-10
2017-03-31 12:58:16

You need a name for this excellent piece of legislation to make it more official Karl and give it LARGE feet.

I propose we call it, "American Healthcare Realignment Act" or "WE THE PEOPLE Healthcare Realignment Act"

This is a great example of how government should work, citizens involved and demanding their representative carry the water WE THE PEOPLE give them.

If the Executive Branch, Justice Department, Congress, the Courts, and Media REFUSE to carry this water to save this great nation, they will all, through their actions, show the world they are TRAITORS to this great country, and guilty of treason. They will have betrayed the American people and their sworn oath to defend the Constitution, THE LAW OF THE LAND.

When Revolution comes to America, I want to shoot these sumbitches with Black Powder so they know Im not blowing smoke up their backsides.
Eli 8k posts, incept 2007-09-10
2017-03-31 12:58:34

Karl, do realize that if you refused to treat fat people who through their own choice over eat every day, that just that alone would blow up the current health care industry?

That would destroy our current society where people have zero responsibility for their own actions. It is always someone else's fault. Grandma is fat because she is big boned and has a slow metabolism, she can't walk cause she has bad knees and she has to have a new hip, she can barely fit in her hove around as it is and she has diabetes, and takes 5 different pills everyday and her doctor is talking about putting her on another one. Why would you force her to pay for anything? you are trying to kill Grand Ma!

Seriously if just that was made law you would fix health care. Go to ANY Wal-mart in the country, look around, it is full of dead people. What really kills me is all the little fat kids.

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell

Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2017-03-31 12:59:38

The easiest way to solve that problem is to cut the public money off.

If there was no reasonable alternative that might be one thing -- but there is, and it has a zero cost associated with it.

No carbs and no PUFAs -> your pants fall off.

"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."
Jfms99 549 posts, incept 2009-10-06
2017-03-31 13:05:42

Karl in the March 30, 2017 issue of USA Today there was a article on MRI costs in the United States and the prices ranged from average of $92 in Mississippi to over $3100 in Alaska. This certainly fits your narrative on the price disparity for procedures in this country.

Link for article below:
Trinityalpsgal 43 posts, incept 2017-03-30
2017-03-31 13:46:47

@Topgun re:

You need a name for this excellent piece of legislation to make it more official Karl and give it LARGE feet.

I propose we call it, "American Healthcare Realignment Act" or "WE THE PEOPLE Healthcare Realignment Act"

Agree! Karl's initiative needs to be branded/named. This is essential for getting traction in the marketplace.

I would argue against branding it as legislation for now thus removing the word "Act".

Am taking a crack at it. As a placeholder, calling it:

Permanent Health Care (PHC) for ALL

Any other recommendations out there?

Morbidcuriosity 5 posts, incept 2010-12-09
2017-03-31 13:48:05

My wife has been an OR Scrub and Circulating Nurse for 10+ years at hospitals in Ohio, California, and Texas. The amount of paperwork required for all cases has exploded over those years, and some of the largest areas of additional tracking are in materials and time. She must account for every instrument, drug, syringe, etc. down to the cotton swabs used to absorb sweat/blood/whateverbodilyfluid within the hospital's system. She must track the time it takes from the patient entering the OR to the patient being released to Recovery, and must explain why anything is outside what is expected in a "normal" case. Yes, they know what is normally expected in time and materials. Yes, they know the costs associated with every procedure that is regularly performed at that hospital. Yes, they could absolutely create a standardized price list and make it public. The data exists and the statistics are known. Yes cases vary, but to one of our host's points, THEY KNOW THE STATISTICS! Setting pricing to make a nice, tidy profit without screwing patients over can be done with the current systems and available information.
Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2017-03-31 14:07:48

Added proof from the CBO's report that my claim for the last 10 years that Social Security is NOT going broke and will NOT blow up the budget -- it is ALL Medicare and Medicaid -- is true.

BTW Social Security starts declining as a share of spending in ten years, exactly as I had noted. Why? The Boomers start passing on and thus the total load from Social Security begins to reverse.



"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."
Aracoma 42 posts, incept 2015-02-17
2017-03-31 14:45:43

I propose we call it, "American Healthcare Realignment Act" or "WE THE PEOPLE Healthcare Realignment Act"

I'd rather call it:

"Bipartisan Instruction To Contain Healthcare Subsidies Legally And Permanently

Seems more fitting......
Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2017-03-31 14:45:52


"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."
Trinityalpsgal 43 posts, incept 2017-03-30
2017-03-31 15:34:55

More proof that we need a complete overhaul!
Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2017-03-31 15:36:15

Yep and most of those nations are socialist so we should be able to beat them.

Thus my 90% target.

"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."
Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ
Page 2 of 8  First12345678Last