If You Think Health Insurance Increases Are Personal Only...
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2015-09-30 13:35 by Karl Denninger
in Health Reform , 1530 references Ignore this thread
If You Think Health Insurance Increases Are Personal Only...

I have a small business quote here in my hot little hand.

The quotes range in increase (depending on the option the firm chooses) of 54.4 to 81.6%, and they include a mandatory underwriting review that has not yet been completed.

This sort of crap is going to destroy businesses and severely depress wages.  It simply must; nobody can afford this sort of increase without it utterly decimating their operating margins.

When does the revolt begin folks?  You either stand now and start demanding prosecution and imprisonment for those in the medical and insurance sector or you will be financially destroyed unless you are both willing and able to opt out.

"Opt out" means cutting your income below about $25,000 so as to access Obamacare subsidies at or near the higher levels and being healthy so you can use a "Bronze" plan, or cutting your income under somewhere between $16,000 and $11,000 a year and being healthy so you are exempt from the individual mandate (which only works if you're in a non-Medicare expansion state.)

Otherwise, you're fucked.

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Hstella
Posts: 1051
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Colorado
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We're F-ed. My husband and I have a high deductible HSA plan that was discontinued. The next cheapest PPO plan had a premium increase of almost 50% - from $400 to $600/mo. At work, we are prioritizing the hiring of people who want to work part time. Coverage for full time workers is over $500/person/mo.
Analog
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arkansas ozarks
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"I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the Underwriter's State of America..."


Insurance industry is happy to redistribute wealth .

Ike's Military-Industrial Complex is chump-change compared to the Government-Insurance complex.







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Patriarch
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your account summary
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The 'Big 5' health plans wrote the ACA, lobbied for it, got it approved, and are now reaping the benefits.

Try to repeal it? You're raciss....

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Our elected take an oath to serve. Time to add: I will not serve in a capacity which I am not able to comprehend or am incapable of by mental defect of any kind, nor will I use the excuse of intellective deficiency if found in violation of this oath/affirmation, which backs charging wayward politicians with treason.
Mymarkettick
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With respect to increasing Health care costs. If this article is anywhere accurate it's just further confirmation of Big Pharma and Government collusion. I would also have to add the BIG Cancer institutions as well here in the states!

"Most people would be quite surprised to learn that there is a vaccine for lung cancer, one which has been proven effective in over 25 years of intense research and several years of clinical use. So why is most of the world only learning about it now? The answer is complicated by back-room dealings in the dark recesses of government, and by the unhealthy influence that pharmaceutical companies have on the availability of life-saving medications
.
.
The vaccine works by limiting a patients ability to produce a hormone called EGF. This hormone has been shown to play a pivotal role in cell division and the growth of malignant cells. As cancer is the result of cells dividing again and again to create tumours, the vaccine reduces this growth by halting EGF production, thereby stopping the tumors growth."

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2015/09/29/cu....
Medicdan
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I have 17 employees. We can no longer provide them with even crappy insurance. Period. Guess what happens when you offer then the same policy but tell them that they have to pay for it?

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Tickerguy
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Uh, yeah.

You should have heard the names I was called when someone quit or was fired at MCSNet and got the COBRA paperwork. I literally cannot count the number of times I was accused of robbing them, even though the aggregate amounts that the firm was paying (and thus the AVERAGE per-employee) was disclosed annually in our staff meeting. And I didn't even charge the 1% fee I was permitted to by law for handling their payments.

Didn't matter.

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Newyorkcentral
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Quote:
You should have heard the names I was called when someone quit or was fired at MCSNet and got the COBRA paperwork.


Yeah, it's shocking how little people seem to know about what comes out of their paycheck on the employer side...most people are amazed when I tell them that they only see *half* of the FICA taxes, and that we're prohibited from showing them the half we pay.
Wearedoomed
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slightly red state
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Generally speaking, if you've never run a business, then you have no idea how much employee benefits cost for the employer. Of course, you also have zero clue that every dollar in benefits and employer-paid taxes is one less dollar in salary. After all, business owners are invariably rich, so they can afford to pay for it... /sarc

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Tsherry
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>>Generally speaking, if you've never run a business, then you have no idea how much employee benefits cost for the employer. Of course, you also have zero clue that every dollar in benefits and employer-paid taxes is one less dollar in salary. After all, business owners are invariably rich, so they can afford to pay for it... /sarc>>

Exactly correct. Which is why during annual reviews of employees, all taxes and "benefits", including both 'employer' and 'employee' sides are provided for everyone's information.

People at my company know what it costs the company to employ people. The first time through, they are stunned.

In subsequent years, they learn to pay attention to my bitching about insurance and tax costs, because the more those costs increase, the less chance they have to have more money in their pockets.

Yesterday, as a result, was not a very good day around here. When we get our next rounds of quotes in the next couple of weeks, I expect another Not Very Good Day.

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Spence
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Here's a congress critter trying to get illegal immigrants covered by Obamacare. That should be good for another 50% increase in premiums!

http://www3.blogs.rollcall.com/218/congr....

Quote:
Congressman: Expand Obamacare to Undocumented Immigrants

By David EldridgePosted at 3 p.m. Sept. 30


Rep Luis V. Gutirrez, one of Congress most outspoken advocates for immigrants, on Wednesday called for expanding the Affordable Care Act to cover all of the estimated 11 million undocumented migrants in the United States.

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Aztrader
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This is why so many small businesses don't hire, and will work from their homes if at all possible. If anyone ran the numbers to open a small retail store would crap their pants. The costs of start up, rent, down payments, inventory, power, security, insurance, employees, employee taxes, shipping, etc with today's margins would run away immediately.

This health insurance scam is no more then an extortion racket for the people that can least afford them. If something isn't done immediately, then our economy is doomed. The candidates need to start talking about this now and show actual bills on the national media. People need to be aware of the rape and pillage that is happening to a large part of America by the financial companies.
Anyone that understands basic math saw this coming. Now we are at the point of no return with premiums approaching a house payment. With wages dropping, how will anyone be able to survive in this tax heavy environment?
Captainkidd
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Quote:
This is why so many small businesses don't hire, and will work from their homes if at all possible. If anyone ran the numbers to open a small retail store would crap their pants. The costs of start up, rent, down payments, inventory, power, security, insurance, employees, employee taxes, shipping, etc with today's margins would run away immediately.


This is why I recently decided not to open a business.
After almost a year of planning, reviewing locations, and preparing, I decided to go ahead and pull the trigger.
I was half way through the process of opening a small diner/cafe. I had found the facility I wanted, with the location I desired. I had all of the necessary equipment either located or already held for my purchase.

But then came all of the permitting, licensing, and other city/county/state fees. These alone, apart from my capital investment for equipment, furnishings, and inventory, would have cost me almost $25,000, as I was opening in a location that had never held a restaurant or food service establishment, and would have to get all of the site plans, floor plans, ADA approvals, layout and parking lot requirements reviewed and approved on top of my food service, health, and other permits and licensing.

Upon looking at the hoops that they were asking me to jump through, and then considering all of the issues with hiring employees, I just decided that it wasn't worth it at this time, and said Fuck it.

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Jackjimbopits
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My and my boys are currently enrolled in a product through American Life Insurance. It provides catastrophic insurance for health issues - but doesn't meet the qualifications of Obamacare. $350 / month for the 3 of us as the wife is on plan paid by her occupation.

We met w/ a insurance broker yesterday to ensure our business won't be fined in the upcoming year. $55 / employee monthly costs, however this provides nothing to either us or the employee. Purely a graft to the insurance company to avoid Obamacare Fines.
Gallen
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Long time reader, 1st time comment.

Karl, appreciate the heads-up on .. cutting your income under $16,000 a year and being healthy..

That describes my situation precisely as we are dropping out of the job market permanently and will have a married-filing-jointly income under 32k (16+16=32) for the 1st time since starting to work almost 50 years ago. Since in a gap state also, should not require mandatory health insurance, if I understood it correctly.

Tickerguy
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Provided they don't change the law, and they might.

As it stands right now if you're in a gap state AND don't qualify for Medicaid but would have if your state didn't opt out the individual mandate does not apply to you because of the USSC ruling on the matter.

Just stay on top of things because who knows what sort of crap will be pulled over time. If you "assume" you're probably going to get a nasty surprise.

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Bmwoodman
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There is a third choice (in a moment).
The O'Care "tax" is based on your income tax refund. At this time, it cannot be levied against you as a separate fine against you.
So - to beat this system, RAISE your income tax deductions by ONE. Then take that new money that shows up in your paycheck (and I'm presuming that most of you have a steady paycheck), and set it aside in a separate bank/CU account. Then, when you file your taxes, you end up paying Uncle Sugar via the IRS. And any money that the IRS would have withheld to pay the O'Care "tax", is now safe (for the moment anyway) in your bank account.

Now, since it is so late in the year, you may want to raise your tax deductions to the max (eight?), so that nothing gets taken out of your paycheck. But, as above, put that paycheck increase in a separate account, to pay your taxes. Or at least reduce the amount that the IRS keeps to pay the O'Care "tax". Then at the start of the new calendar year, re-adjust your deductions to family size + one. The reason for only a deduction + ONE increase, is that Uncle Sugar doesn't like it when you don't pay in any/enough during the year, so he hits you with another penalty. So to avoid giving the IRS any more of your money than is absolutely necessary, stick to "+ one".
Tickerguy
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Careful with that. There's a safe-harbor rule on underpayment of tax and if you don't qualify for it you will get buttfucked with a penalty for under-withholding.

As someone who has been an independent (not on a W2) for quite a long time I know this rule well and it is not as easy as you put forward. If you wind up withholding/paying less than last year's taxes you're exposed which means that this strategy only works if your taxable income is growing on an annual basis by enough to give you the margin to get away with it.

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Gallen
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Bmwoodman,

Would it be simpler to make an extra payment, for example 2k, using online 1040ES via https://www.eftps.gov/eftps/ ?

Karl,

As to Medicaid, we are too young to qualify so that should not be a problem. Should a real emergency develop, am confident we can negotiate a cash settlement at similar to insured rates with a hospital and if not settled, let them sue us (all assets in a trust).
Don24mac
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A single relative of mine in Missouri is trying to keep his income below $11,490, which is the poverty level for 2015. Missouri is a state that did not expand Medicare, so he's picked up a catastrophic plan that does not meet O-care requirements. He contacted the Healthcare.gov people by phone last year and they sent him an exemption certification.

At that time, since he didn't qualify for a subsidy, they told him that for the least expensive plan (I forget which "metal" plan it is... maybe iron) would cost him about $700/mo. That is just a few bucks less than he makes in a month.

He knows that if he makes more than that $11,490 ($11,670 for 2016, which is taken from the healthcare.gov site) the subsidy will only give him an un-affordable unusable medical plan due to the co-pays, and annual deductible.

That $11,670 figure is taken from here:
https://www.healthcare.gov/lower-costs/q....

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Tickerguy
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Right -- it depends on the state and number of people in the household. But if you're over the base level then a bronze plan is very cheap until you start hitting the phase-outs.

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Civil Society requires 99%+ consent.
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No violence required.
Tickerguy
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To all those posting on so-called "Christian Health Share": Your posts will NOT be approved and if you press the issue you WILL be leaving.

Why? Because they do EXACTLY NOTHING to advance a solution to the problem, which is DESTRUCTION of the monopolist interests. Dodging the ACA is NOT going to fix anything, and further, if and when these collapse (and they will) YOU will get "Mr. Hands" style screwed. I am NOT going to be a party to that nor will I permit advocacy of it here. Go run that shit somewhere else.

Finally, and most-importantly, ANY organization that rests its "coverage" on the premise that nobody can have any sort of interpersonal relationship other than one CORRUPTED by the State and subject to serial abuse (so-called "marriage" as it exists today) will NOT get coverage or debate here. End of discussion, full stop.

These dodges are a SCAM built on a pack of lies and if you're doing anything other than simply trying to evade (at great personal financial cost) dealing with the REALITY of this problem then you need to find another place to discuss matters on the Internet, because that is NOT going to happen where MY funds are being spent.

End of line.

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Attilahooper
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New York, by way of Montreal Canada.
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Meanwhile, in anecdotal land. I talked to two people recently, a good friend who is dating a mexican woman living in Masshole and another friend's wife who is a practicing dietician at a local hospital.

Husbandless mexican woman w kids in masshole receives all bennies, welfare, section 8, foodstamps and ALL h/c free; optical, dental, psychiatric, etc. I don't think any of em are working, and the teen daughter just got knocked-up. hfs !

Other friend's wife is full on libtard from californication, with hippie marxist parents who just happened to make a couple mill on property bought in the 60's. She's taken offense to her husband's and my conservative views in the past, but has come to realize that her own h/c policy takes 1000's out of her pocket and has monster deductibles, while she sees the masses come in to her workplace wearing designer clothes and sporting a wealthy lifestyle get it all for free. No sympathy there.

My wife recently priced some drugs out of Canada for us and an elderly neighbour for a fraction of what it cost here. I consider myself lucky to have this as a backdoor plan, but not happy with it.

Although I am a canuck, I consider myself an American first. But this shit is untenable. when my wife had to reconcile her canuck taxes, she had an intelligent person on the phone for over an hour. You try to engage any US agency, from DMV up to IRS, for help and you'll get the biggest full on retard money can't be more wasted on.


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Tsherry
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>>These dodges are a SCAM built on a pack of lies and if you're doing anything other than simply trying to evade (at great personal financial cost) dealing with the REALITY of this problem then you need to find another place to discuss matters on the Internet, because that is NOT going to happen where MY funds are being spent.

End of line.
>>

That's what I've concluded. Thanks.

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Goforbroke
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The tadpole is gone due to CV-19. I am hunkering down.
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The annual premium for a family for the plan espoused by our school district is roughly $20,000 a year of which the employee pays 20%. $1000 deductible, $2000 max OOP, 20% coinsurance.

Insurance company quoted a 17% increase, which we balked at, so they reviewed the numbers and it came down to 10%.

One of the key factors in renewal rates is "claims rate" which is the dollar value of claims divided by the yearly premium. "Good" is considered to be 80% range, which means the insurance company is making a 20% margin on each contract.

The school district's claims rate for this last year was 60%, and yet they still quoted a premium increase of 10% for the next year. This is ludicrous. The district should be getting a reduction based on the claims rate, not an increase.

I'd be interested in knowing what the claims rate was for the two companies whose increases you cited.

And, yes, it's all a scam with colluded/monopolistic pricing.

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