Banks Find A New RipOff - "Professional" Cards
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2010-08-29 14:12
by Karl Denninger
in Banking System
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Banks Find A New RipOff - "Professional" Cards
 

You didn't think that the banks would actually abide the new "Credit Card Act", right?

Well, they do - kinda.  But there was a Mack-Truck sized loophole in it, and now the fraudsters are back exploiting it:

Professional cards aren't covered under the Credit Card Accountability and Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009, or Card Act for short. Among other things, the law prohibits issuers from controversial billing practices such as hair-trigger interest rate increases, shortened payment cycles and inactivity fees—but it doesn't apply to professional cards (see table).

Right.

A "professional card" is supposedly for those who are, well, professionals.  You know who they are - self-employed people primarily, along with those who use cards as a means of handling expense reports and similar, where their company reimburses them.

The problem is this - those cards are exempt from all the protections you thought you had as a result of this new so-called "Consumer Protection" legislation.  You know, not being able to have your existing balances retroactively spike on interest rates, punitive over-limit or late fees, and similar shenanigans?  Yep - all that stuff that was supposed to go away does not apply to these "professional" cards.

These offers used to be limited to people who could document an actual business or professional need.  You know, like a FEIN for a business enterprise of some sort, or an address - or even a DBA name?  Not any more - the applications now seem to have a checkbox that says "I'm a businessperson."

Yeah.

The problem here of course is that if you lie that's fraud.  But what's a "lie" in this context, and doesn't the change to these applications amount to soliciting for a fraudulent act?

I think it does.  Of course the banks will argue differently.

In support of their position perhaps they can explain how, as was noted in the article, a retired military member with no actual business got these solicitations?

This much I do know - I got three of them this week alone.  I do have an LLC, but I have no reason whatsoever to apply for any of these so-called "credit lines."

Now I know why the junk mail with these offers has suddenly increased.

Oh, incidentally there is no clear disclosure in these solicitations that these cards are not subject to the protections of the CARD act - I looked.

Don't you think, CONgress and The Fed (which claims to be the "enforcer" of consumer protection), that the least you should do is require that these banks display in prominent 18pt bold type that these cards carry none of the protections under the law that consumer cards now have?

Naw, doing that would mean that people would have fair notice that the banks are trying to pull yet another evasion around what are supposed to be reasonable consumer protections.

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User Info Banks Find A New RipOff - "Professional" Cards in forum [Market-Ticker]
Asimov
Posts: 88224
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No surprise at all here. I knew they'd figure out a way around it.

What do you want to bet that the number of new consumer cards has fallen off a cliff at the same time these have skyrocketed?

Betcha you'll never see a spam application for one as long as this is allowed, either.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.
If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
Swordsman
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If you play with snakes you will be bitten.
Throxxofvron
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The Professional Card applications ALL used to have a section where the Person applying for the Card was REQUIRED to provide TWO pieces of verifiable information about the Business such as Tax Resale Numbers or Business Bank Account Numbers.

People simply couldn't apply for these Cards without that information in the past.

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DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell
Mannfm11
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Before long, the users of these cards will have their own technique. It is called Pay to the order of X $0.00
Zero and no cents

memo: Kiss my ass


That is a check for those that don't know and I think they can't call a check for zero a hot one

Genesis
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Throx: Yep.

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QE2 - The largest tax ever levied on The entire world - and entirely illegal.
There's no Bondzilla eh? Hmmm.... we'll see about that.
It's not Crony Capitalism - it's common theft or, if you need a single word - Cannibalism.
Learn How The Corrupt Political System Killed Our Economy
Mari
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I knew it - I knew it, I knew it, I KNEW IT!

I have had a Citibank card for years and years. This past summer, they sent me a notice that my card was being transferred to a new card with oh so many more benefits. The transfer would take place in July, I think, unless I called them at a special number to tell them I didn't want the new card. On the surface, it seemed fine - same way too high interest rate (so I'm sure it ticks them off that I pay in full every month and have done so for a number of years), an opportunity to transfer existing balances from other cards at a very low rate (don't have any existing balances), multiple "extras" to simplify my life, no annual fee, etc. Going with the "if it's too good to be true" principle and because it was effective before the new credit card rules went into effect, I refused and kept my old card. I believe I shredded the offer since I can't find it now, but I think this ticker explains why they made the offer! Boy, I'm glad I said NO!
Blackswan
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****ing criminals. Professional card or regualar card - no reason to give these criminals your business.

I gave GMAC mortgage - (now Ally Bank) the finger on Thursday - refi with my credit union.

I found this website exposing credit card crimes - also references WSJ article.

http://www.changeinterms.com/2010/08/09/....

Have you been solicited for a small business/professional credit card?
Aug 9th, 2010 by Dr Robert Lahm.

excerpt -


Remember the C.A.R.D. ACT? You know, the one with loopholes that are “big enough to drive an armored truck through“? The one that the credit card companies spent millions to lobby against (using as one source of funds, taxpayer’s own bailout money)? The one that applies to fixed rate consumer cards, but exempted “business credit cards“ and variable rate cards (see the “loopholes” link cited above — credit card companies conveniently used the incredibly long waiting period before the C.A.R.D. Act kicked in to convert accounts to variable rates)?

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“It’s checkmate. Everywhere it’s checkmate.”
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Dakine2004
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Why the hub-bub...? No free lunch, buyer beware and all... CCs used to be a 'privilege'...

Etz
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Getting ****ed in the ass by some CC is a privilege if you're Bawney Frank.






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Legal chicanery and beneficent darkness are the banker's stoutest allies - Ferdinand Pecora.

Halfbrite
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What difference does credit cards make?

Did anyone over the age of 12 actually believe that the "Financial Reform Legislation" would do jack ****?

Did anyone believe the FRL will "reform" the derivatives casino, where the financial services big shots gamble and bet 100x the pension savings of everyone in America?

Does anyone believe that derivatives casino will not inevitably turn our economy and currency into a huge, smoking,defaulting, crater?

Good ticker KD, true, well written, etc., but in context, not my top priority.

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"That which cannot continue, will not continue. Brace for impact!"
Alexjones
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To all the sheeple falling for this scam.. Bwwahahahahahaha.
Learn How The Corrupt Political System Killed Our Economy
Killersdad
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Now I know why mail offerings to me for business cards have gone up exponentially in the last 2 months.

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They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq ...why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it has worked for over 200 years, and we're not using it anymore.
Uwe
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Throxx wrote..
The Professional Card applications ALL used to have a section where the Person applying for the Card was REQUIRED to provide TWO pieces of verifiable information about the Business such as Tax Resale Numbers or Business Bank Account Numbers.

People simply couldn't apply for these Cards without that information in the past.

Bah, I've had a "Professional" Amex for more than 10 years and they didn't ask squat when I got it. I had not yet bothered with getting any sort of tax ID because I was just getting started as sole proprietorship. In fact, the only evidence I could possibly have offered at the time was the fact that I had just opened a checking account at my bank in an DBA name, which was unregistered because it was not a fictitious name by PA's definition.

-Uwe-

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“Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
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Jinxx0r
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Can I just call myself a sole proprietor any time I want to and then I can check the box saying I have a business?

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"That idea is so retarded that it gets special paychecks from the government three times a year." ~cracked.com

"If you voted for Obama in 2008 to prove you’re not racist, you’ll have to find someone else to vote for in 2012 to prove you’re not an idiot."
Genesis
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Sure, if you want to get butt****ed.

----------
QE2 - The largest tax ever levied on The entire world - and entirely illegal.
There's no Bondzilla eh? Hmmm.... we'll see about that.
It's not Crony Capitalism - it's common theft or, if you need a single word - Cannibalism.
Uwe
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Gold
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Quote:
Can I just call myself a sole proprietor any time I want to and then I can check the box saying I have a business?


I did essentially that, and I didn't get screwed at all. I wanted the "professional" card to simplify keeping tracking business vs. personal expenses, and because it's a lot less hassle buying stuff with a card than filling out a credit application with every vendor, or writing checks for a COD deliveries while the UPS guy is drumming his fingers on the table waiting. As long as you're willing and able to pay the entire bill when it's due, you shouldn't need any Vaseline.

-Uwe-

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“Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
- Heinlein
Ricka01
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The Professional Cards are also different from personal credit cards in that liability for theft/fraud is yours, not the card company's. This has always been the case, and a major reason to never get one.
Mangothebird
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I love how the American Express Business Card color is red. How appropriate. There's gotta be some sick bastard that works for marketing in these companies.

Inline

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"Light a fire for a man, and he shall be warm for a few hours. Light the man on fire, and he shall be warm for the rest of his life." - Chinese Proverb
Wb6yyz
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Gen, you remember back when Chase added the default interest nonsense to their business cards. They were real tricky about sending the legally required notice of the change, saying, "This new agreement will not affect your interest rate", which OK, if you made sure to pay on time it didn't, but if you missed even ONE payment on ANY OTHER DEBT, not just the Chase card they jacked your rate. So yes, like you I voted with my feet, blew off Chase and got a card with somewhat more favorable terms.
Genesis
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Yep.

----------
QE2 - The largest tax ever levied on The entire world - and entirely illegal.
There's no Bondzilla eh? Hmmm.... we'll see about that.
It's not Crony Capitalism - it's common theft or, if you need a single word - Cannibalism.
Jinxx0r
Posts: 3703
Incept: 2007-08-10
Silver
People's Republic of Illinois
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Quote:
Sure, if you want to get butt****ed.


I have no credit cards, with no plans to get one, so I won't. You said that it was fraud.

Quote:
The problem here of course is that if you lie that's fraud. But what's a "lie" in this context, and doesn't the change to these applications amount to soliciting for a fraudulent act?


I thought anyone could call themselves a business person, i.e. a sole proprietorship. I work for a large company, but consider myself in business for myself and that I'm serving my employer like I'm serving a customer.

*shrugs*

Saying I'm in business for myself, like this, would be fraud if I tried to get one of those cards (not that I am, I don't do credit)?

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"That idea is so retarded that it gets special paychecks from the government three times a year." ~cracked.com

"If you voted for Obama in 2008 to prove you’re not racist, you’ll have to find someone else to vote for in 2012 to prove you’re not an idiot."

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