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User Info Bitscam And Other Extraordinary Insanities in forum [Market-Ticker]
Tickerguy
Posts: 150661
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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The funniest **** I've seen in a long time

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Winding it down.
Ckaminski
Posts: 4311
Incept: 2011-04-08

Mass-Hole!
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Quote:
Blockchain size


Is there no way to truncate the ledgers?
Rollformer
Posts: 78
Incept: 2013-02-13

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Karl, I've done some additional math. I'm going to send a whitepaper and an Excel model over the transom.

Your point about the diminishing returns is true. Even I, who think it is worth something, have determined that at the current market price, each additional coin is worth $11. If Bitcoin were trading at what I consider fair value it would be worth $1.63. So there really is no point in mining any more of it.

I had argued that this should be valued as a network. When you use an objective measure of value--in this case the number of widgets purchased by a bitcoin--the value of the coin increases perfectly with the square of the bitcoin portion of the economy.

I know the math is wrong; I believe I need to use differential equations, but I think in so doing, the situation may be made worse.

So when you see it, please find something wrong with my math. Because what I have is terrifying.

Tickerguy
Posts: 150661
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Scams usually are .

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Winding it down.
Rollformer
Posts: 78
Incept: 2013-02-13

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Please just check the math. I am having a beer or two.
Tsherry
Posts: 957
Incept: 2008-12-09

Spokane WA
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Like I said a week or three ago, when I hear Glenn Beck talking about how people would be stupid to not get into Bitcoin, even though it's probably going to collapse, it's time for popcorn and a nice stout.

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Omne mendacium est.
Lenguado
Posts: 2167
Incept: 2010-01-12
A True American Patriot!
Orlando, FL
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"Yes Mam. We will accept BitCoins for the purchase of your vehicle."

"Great! How many coins to purchase that gorgeous Ford minivan that we've been talking about?"

"Well - That will be 5 coins."

"Wait - now it is 6 coins."

"Shoot. Now 7 1/2 coins. . . .. wait, 4 coins."

"Hurry and complete the transaction! It's now 3 coins!"

"Crap. You took too long. You now owe us an additional 9 coins . . . "

smiley

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I just realized... they aren't saying, "Keynesian Economics"
they're saying "Kenyansian Economics". Grass Huts for everyone!
smiley
Welcome to historys first Double Dip Depression
Ckaminski
Posts: 4311
Incept: 2011-04-08

Mass-Hole!
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Maybe it's not your math, but your assumptions.

If you're calculating the wrong thing, the math will always give you the wrong answer.

Arguably, the only intrinsic value of BTC is the value of the energy (and maybe capital depreciation) of each solved work unit.

Quote:
it's time for popcorn and a nice stout.


Not quite. When my DAD starts asking me about BTC, then it'll be time. Because by then the chatter will be so incessant, and he'll do his own research and be like "WTF not this **** again".
Supertruckertom
Posts: 1548
Incept: 2010-11-07

USA
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Monero jumped from the $190 range to $280 so far this week.

Seems that some musicians decided to start accepting it.

Still no Monero to USD direct exchange he's been set up.
It has to be converted to Bitcoin.

Is this going to turn into a stampede from one crypto to another as the miners move on?


Transaction clearance speed will keep Visa and Mastercard in business for a long time.

Would Quantum Computing help BlockChain hash speeds?

Still need to get something out of a Laboratory that actually works.


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Preparing to go Hunting.
Hstella
Posts: 712
Incept: 2009-08-18

Colorado
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I think the underlying blockchain is really what's valuable. I can't imagine how you would rehypothecate shares if the trades were confirmed this way. Similarly, what about using a version of AI to figure out what's actually in insurance contracts (which even lawyers have a hard time reading)?
Crossthread
Posts: 6048
Incept: 2007-09-04

Wilmington, NC
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Karl, thanks for your insight..
I still remember that 1st ticker you published back in??? Feb~March 2011???..About BTC..
I almost BOUGHT around 100.00 worth of BTC when it was going for 1.27 each.. (For chits & giggles)...
that would of been 74.7401.... BTC which would be worth today...current price..
IS 1,283,436.99
Tulips indeed,, but I really wish I bought that 100 worth.. back then..

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Cognitive Co-Dependency is when a normal rational person, internalizes irrational illogical presentations, and somehow reconciles them to fit their scripted indoctrination of logical analysis.
Quote:
Samuel L. Clemens:There is NO Native Criminal Class; EXCEPT for CONgress

Niktesla
Posts: 58
Incept: 2009-06-02

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Karl,

Forgetting about the price stability or lack thereof (it really is silly)...

I think it's worth pursuing a technical discussion on viability. I'd like to separate mining versus full node validation.

Even though the block award is fixed, the price is variable as is the difficulty so I still think a market can adjust accordingly.

However, you bring up a great point on full node validation. Since there's no reward for doing it, the only icentivized party to have a full node validator is a miner. Given the millions required to have a chance to win a block + electricity that number will be few and therefore centralized versus decentralized.

Currently the systems requires everyone in order to participate to either cover the cost of running a full node (e.g. and the resulting storage costs of the blockchain (+/- 180GB currently)...or rely upon a wallet that uses a full node (thereby requiring trust which defeats the purpose). Option two would work, however, having to trust someone else to maintain a validating node seems antithetical to the reason bitcoin was created.

Finally, even though Bitcoin is a long way from a currency (e.g. isn't used as a medium of exchange for all assets yet or never) what are your thoughts on the fact that Bitcoin will have and has a finite number of units (ultimately)? Can a healthy modern economy exist on a currency with a fixed money supply?



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"The inventories index rose sharply, to 0.0, its highest reading in more than a year." - cnbc.com
Dtlgc
Posts: 1050
Incept: 2007-11-26

Texas
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lol - hodling in 2012 - hodling now... chive on....
Tickerguy
Posts: 150661
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Zeeeeewwwwwwwwro

"Aw **** I named my boat!"

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Winding it down.

Ponzi_unit
Posts: 9192
Incept: 2007-09-05

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I still think i should be promoted to Ponzi_prince.

Inline

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Taxpayers witnessed a crime and stayed around long enough to get charged with it.
Marc2mrkt
Posts: 512
Incept: 2008-04-12

Taipei
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Here is an interesting bitcoin thread from @ektrit ~ sorry if its too much. The entire thread from the beginning can be found here: https://mobile.twitter.com/i/nojs_router....

Quote:

BITCOIN THREAD

@ektrit
I'd like to repeat what counterfeited money is, again, as we shift to bitcoin: Again, to repeat: Money is counterfeited when it is created without reflecting a trade imbalance.
17/

@ektrit
Now, we shift to the new technology, High Frequency Trading. What happened is that money (as trade imbalance) was now created electronically at microsecond speed.
18/

@ektrit
So, what does HFT (High Frequency Trading) do? HFT counterfeits dollars in microseconds time spans. It is illegal, it is a crime, but the law somehow doesn't cover microseconds.
19/

@ektrit
HFT firms have no dollars, but they can buy anything that is traded electronically by use of algos. And they buy/sell without having any dollars. They simply counterfeit money, look at your positions, buy securities without having any dollars, sell them, pocket the profit.
20/

@ektrit
Now, that requires GREATER FOOLS, it requires HUMANS which would be the victims of HFT. Usually, it is the institutions which control world markets, not simple people. Hence, Greater Fools understand the game and walk out, eventually.
21/

@ektrit
When the greater fools walk out, these are called: MARKET CRASHES.
22/

@ektrit
Now, we shift to Bitcoin. The thing with Bitcoin is that Greater Fools are now the world citizens, not corporations and institutions, as this is a global game accessible to all simple people.
23/

@ektrit
Major players are now using HFT technology, to buy Bitcoin without having any money at all. If Dow could go 400% higher from 2009 in 8 years, using HFT for 70% of the trades, Bitcoin has gone galactically higher in a very short time.
24/

@ektrit
Why? Because the game is global now, accessible to all simple people with a computer and internet access, whereas Dow, stocks, bonds, commodities are mostly traded by corporations and institutions.
25/

@ektrit
So, major players, without having any money, just because such access is granted, they simply counterfeit dollars via algorithms. it is that simple. The simply counterfeit electronic dollars by use of algos. It is not dollars, it heat, just heat.
26/

@ektrit
Back to original concept of money: Money is a legal document showing trade imbalances among citizens.
27/

@ektrit
As you see, money created via HFT and in Bitcoin exchanges is simply counterfeited, as it does not show any trade imbalance. Major players have been allowed access to do that.it is that simple.
28/

@ektrit
So, anybody with preferred access to bitcoin exchanges, can create an algo which creates counterfeit money, which buys bitcoin, which waits for greater fools worldwide to come in with their real money to sell them to.
29/

@ektrit
And that is why Bitcoin now keeps going up by $1000 in mere hours, because players with preferred access design algos which look at the positions of the greater fools, which now come from all over the world, from anybody with a computer and internet
30/

@ektrit
So, assume you are that Major Player with preferred access. You design an algo, and buy bitcoin at $16000 right now. You do not need any money for it, you simply counterfeit it, just because. It is a crime, but law has not covered that yet
31/

@ektrit
So, greater fools worldwide, with a computer and internet access, rush in to buy bitcoin at $16000 from you. You sell, you make the profit, without having any money at all, just big computers, great quants and preferred access
32/

@ektrit
Now, you have noticed that Bitcoin can drop $3000 in few hours. Yes, it can, when algos push it up by $3000, but no greater fools appear to sell to. Since they had no money, they have to drop their positions until greater fools appear. Hence, sudden drops.
33/

@ektrit
You see, the point is to make a profit, not to hold securities or bitcoin. You can't hold it, because you used no money to buy it anyway. You get the point?
34/

@ektrit
So, everything depends on the constant inflow from greater fools. And since Bitcoin is accessible to many greater fools worldwide, it can go on until no greater fools remained.
35/

@ektrit
Now, you'd ask? Why does the Government allow this, being a Madoff scheme on top of counterfeiting money? That is a trillion dollar question. I have an idea, but that is for another thread.
36/

END OF THREAD.

Ckaminski
Posts: 4311
Incept: 2011-04-08

Mass-Hole!
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> So, everything depends on the constant inflow from greater fools

So Ponzi.

HFTs... They make their money off the skim, buy .10 less than you do before selling it to you, and sell at .10 more than you before cashing you out. $.10 isn't a lot, but averaged over MILLIONS of transactions, it adds up.
Tickerguy
Posts: 150661
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Ten cents? Oh no, with Bitscam there's nothing preventing the "exchange" from being a bucket shop (unlike in the regulated markets where that's ILLEGAL) and thus buying at a rate they don't give you but selling at the offer to you! The other day there were periods of time where this difference was a THOUSAND DOLLARS.

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Winding it down.
Krzelune
Posts: 5825
Incept: 2007-10-08

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Are the bit-bucketeers the big financial institutions or someone else?
Tickerguy
Posts: 150661
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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ALL the exchanges have to be assumed to be doing this (e.g. Coinscam, etc.)

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Winding it down.
Quik49
Posts: 4217
Incept: 2007-12-11

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Options are going to be available for this?

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Long Vaseline....

Quik49
Posts: 4217
Incept: 2007-12-11

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How about adding options to this great thing...oh wait

smiley

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Long Vaseline....

Dtlgc
Posts: 1050
Incept: 2007-11-26

Texas
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I'll be here for you to rub my nose in it when it folds as long as you are still here for me to jab when it doesn't smiley
Lanny
Posts: 71
Incept: 2010-12-21

Canada
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I wouldn't think options would be priced anywhere under 35,000ft. This thing's going to the moon alice, gravity will lose it's grip shortly. When Shatner and Bones see it coming back to us one day as a high speed earth bound projectile ha ha ha it'll be time for another Star Trek movie LOL. From Vyger to Bitoi. Star Trek 83: The Return of Bitoi.
Marc2mrkt
Posts: 512
Incept: 2008-04-12

Taipei
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follow-up
Quote:

@ektrit

BITCOIN
My hypothesis is that Bitcoin is being used by western central banks to drain excess currency from the system. I find no other explanation for allowing a Madoff scheme, which NSA created for another purpose.

other tweets
Quote:

@ektrit
It is, NSA created it, not a theory.
http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/....

@ektrit
Bitcoin is government run Madoff Scheme. NSA created bitcoin, and if the government defends it, then there is a plan. The question is: What is that plan?

@ektrit
Bitcoin is heat. All algorithms are simply heat. People are literally buying .... Heat.

@DoubleEagle49
Replying to @ektrit
With the exponential rate of expansion occurring in Bitcoin right now, the bubble must get a lot bigger in order to collapse at least $4 trillion in USD$. We can call this MOAB.

@jkkaruta
whose your broker?

@chigrl
Advantage

@CTfutures
can't believe the regulators are actually allowing this to happen... so what are ppl actually trading? how does this settle & go for delivery at expiry?

@DoctorGM
They never go for delivery. They are just cash settled. That way, the Futures market can create as much paper BTC as needed to satisfy the market (long and short). True price discovery is not far away now.

@timmyotoole23
this going to be awesome 21mil. Coins BTC no more ... Unlimited paper derivatives get the popcorn ready .. Financial Industry you did it again everything Bitcoin was build for I the first place now obsolete ..

@nntaleb
Very big point. Futures that don't have deliverables require a very, very deep market. Otherwise someone long the future can push prices higher at settlement time with impunity, by "locking" profits (never having to resell a deliverable).

@MittCapital
Bitcoin futures are cash settled. No delivery requirement. Its just a sentiment indicator that could be completely wrong compared to the actual price. Truly the most highest form of speculation ever created.
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