You Mean They Were Stealing, Right?
The Market Ticker - Commentary on The Capital Markets
2017-07-15 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Social Issues , 384 references Ignore this thread
You Mean They Were Stealing, Right?
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Isn't it funny how when the government actually expects you to work for your handout, or at least be working toward being able to workthere are suddenly a lot fewer people who "need" help?

Alabama began 2017 by requiring able-bodied adults without children in 13 counties to either find a job or participate in work training as a condition for continuing to receive Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) benefits. 

According to AL.com, the number of those recipients declined from 5,538 to 831 between Jan. 1 and the beginning of May – an 85 percent drop.

So 85% of the people who were getting SNAP (food stamps) didn't need them or weren't willing to either work or try to learn some useful skill in order to keep the benefits?

That would mean they didn't need them, by the way.

Think this is a one-off?  Nope.  Georgia saw a 58% reduction in one block of counties and a 62% in another block.

Let this sink in folks: Somewhere between half and more than 80% of the people getting SNAP either did so fraudulently in the first place because they didn't need it or they're unwilling to do anything productive to keep them.

Whatever you reward you get more of.

Reward people sitting on their ass..... and they will.

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Als
Posts: 523
Incept: 2010-03-12

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That is almost as good as when Obama pushed for 99 weeks of unemployment. I knew several guys in the trades that took their ninety nine weeks of unemployment and then went to work under the table. The funny thing was they ended up getting screwed when the unemployment ran out and them decided to look for a job.

Nothing says lazy good for nothing like showing up with an application two weeks before your unemployment runs out and you've been sitting on your butt for ninety seven weeks.

I know many companies around me that wouldn't even look at these people when they showed up for an application. You remember the media screaming discrimination that many of these people weren't being considered for jobs.

I hang on a large gun board and when things got tough back in 2008-2009 and a few members lost their jobs we got on them not to screw around and start looking immediately.

I'd say almost every guy that took our advice, got a job with in 90 days, paying the same or more than the one they lost. The point we put across is that you have to show a prospective employer that you want to work and you want a job today even though you're collecting unemployment. The shorter time you're on unemployment the better your chances at landing that job.

I made the point of how a buddy of mine got his dream job at a suburban Police Dept. When it came down to him and two other candidates who were more qualified, he ended up winning out because he hadn't used up his sick days like the other two had. He'd used one and the other two police officers had burned through all their sick days already.
Ahhz
Posts: 227
Incept: 2011-06-12

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Quote:
According to AL.com, the number of those recipients declined from 5,538 to 831 between Jan. 1 and the beginning of May an 85 percent drop


I have to wonder how many of those 4,707 recipients who dropped, couldn't show up for a job/training. Not because they were disabled/couldn't find a ride, but because they only existed as paper/numbers in the system.

Reluctantdebtor
Posts: 284
Incept: 2010-03-05

ohio
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On-the-ground report.....
Around here, there are an enormous amount of people who can be immediately identified as "unemployable". Missing huge amounts of teeth, speech impediments, incredibly low IQs, and very often physically messed up in various and often multiple but not immediately visible ways ways that prevent even meeting the basic physical requirements of entry-level retail. Deprived of SNAP (which is not particularly easy to get around in this area without having a brood of kids), there is one option for additional income: drug-dealing.

The illicit substances sold by these people are most often meth or opiates. Somehow street opiates exist locally in befuddling quantity, so obviously pharma companies are shipping to the area more than they know is necessary for legitimate medical treatment, fully expecting a large portion to be "diverted".

So, the most immediate result in these environs of reducing SNAP and other benefits by instituting work requirements and/or other restrictions is to increase the drug trade. Often the dealers become addicts and then need to support the habit - and you know how that's done. Driving behind any half-vacant strip mall around here, where the rats and dumpsters are, reveals competing crowds of malformed hordes offering their bodies for quick & casual hire. A steady stream of cars frequents these locations , ignored by police. Many of them feature license plates with oddly low, even single-digit numbers, and most of the cars are very expensive.

Pushing on one part of a big complicated problem can unintentionally cause goop to squirt out somewhere else.
Ee4fire
Posts: 329
Incept: 2011-03-24

Washington, DC
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Who knew? Just those of us with common sense and go to the grocery store and see the fraud first hand.

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(Politicians), 536 commoditized temple monkeys pawing through the ruins of America in search of bribes. (The District of Corruption) works like a vending machine. You put coins in the slot, select your law, and the desired legislation slides out." Fred Reed. Some editting by me.


Tinman
Posts: 282
Incept: 2008-02-16

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I see it constantly in the People's Republic of Maryland. "Immigrant" mother with hoard of kids (all have I-phones). She pays with WIC then Snap and everything not covered is paid with a credit card (which I assume will be defaulted on). Argues the whole time in broken English holding up the line and then drives off in a Benz. I pay full price cash and drive away in my 20 year old pickup. It's absolutely enraging.
Diggs
Posts: 116
Incept: 2008-03-25

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Isn't it just 85% of the "able-bodied adults without children" SNAP recipients that are stealing? It is still a staggering percentage. There are still hundreds of thousands of recipients not being required to do anything. Here in Maine (we have the same requirement now), I have heard that about one-third of our 1.3 million residents are on some sort of state aid. We also have a extremely low unemployment percentage and many local places cant find enough workers to keep the doors open everyday, especially in the restaurant industry.
Vernonb
Posts: 1817
Incept: 2009-06-03

East of Sheol
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And then there are the cheats collecting social security for permanent disability but don't have any physical issues when they must do something for themselves.

Nothing like being a second class citizen and slave in your own country is it Tinman?

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"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Patriarch
Posts: 1170
Incept: 2007-10-18

your account summary
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Stealing is a harsh word. I think that 'buying votes' may be a better fit.

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Our elected take an oath to serve. Time to add: I will not serve in a capacity which I am not able to comprehend or am incapable of by mental defect of any kind, nor will I use the excuse of intellective deficiency if found in violation of this oath/affirmation, which backs charging wayward politicians with treason.
Bigsapper
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Incept: 2010-06-25

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While Captain Obvious is obvious, I am truly shocked at the scope. Wow. Just wow.
Mangymutt
Posts: 402
Incept: 2015-05-03

Vancouver WA
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Ahhz - "I have to wonder how many of those 4,707 recipients who dropped, couldn't show up for a job/training. Not because they were disabled/couldn't find a ride, but because they only existed as paper/numbers in the system."

Great question, but my experience with this type of thing is, there is plenty of fraud going on with people taking advantage of these programs. However there is very little actual fraud going on, with the state creating phony numbers.

Yea fraud is fraud and the state is actually facilitating the fraud, but they are not creating empty accounts. (Maybe someone can prove that wrong???)

The budgets to most of these programs is based off the services provided and the number of people who take advantage of these services. The more people taking advantage of the service the greater the "Need" for the service and the larger the budget.

In many cases the social worker or whoever, is selling their product, the more people they sign up the better they look and the more "Valuable" their job is.

In the vast majority of cases the money is going to actual people, but like Tinman points out, it is going to folks who know how to take advantage of and get away with fraud.

And the state encourages it.
Asimov
Posts: 109413
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee Eastern Time
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Not exactly the same thing, but something funny I saw yesterday.

Work van, ladder rack with ladder... And a handicapped license plate.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Whitehat
Posts: 31
Incept: 2017-06-27

New York City
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This brings back memories of when i was out of college looking to score some health benefits. Needed to have the bankruptcy protection as I was the mortgagor and title holder on my parents house. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. Was working unloading trucks and heavy night stocking for a supermarket company. Miserable SOB's on welfare would come in with WIC, Stamps all sorts of **** in all races. Fur coats, cell phones, nice clothes, cars much newer than mine. Find out who was drug addicted, in a "program" so that they could get college for free to be say a physician's assistant (Not a bad career, money wise). All had attitudes and would complain about any employee at the drop of a hat. Seems like the more people ****ed up, the more help they got. Learned a little too late that when you pick yourself up by the bootstraps, you demonstrate that you do not need help. Would be great if you were not helping everyone else on a level playing field.

I wonder if I could get a federal research grant to setup a county or state that does not offer any assistance for anything and enforces equal standing under the law. This would be a social science experiment only, of course. I call it the historically unparalleled economic prosperity zone. I need to get a grant writer.

Seriously thinking of selling my house and going somewhere at one sixth the purchase price. Keep the equity for retirement and work two days a week. Sick of this rigged game.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
Ahhz
Posts: 227
Incept: 2011-06-12

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Mangymutt, you make a valid point on the state not creating empty accounts. I'm sure some would exist, but I doubt there would be many.

I was thinking more along the lines of the recipients creating the extra fake accounts. As long as Danny Deadbeat and his alias accounts Fred Fraud and Frank Fraud don't have to see the same case worker or visit the same welfare office often, odds are he won't be found out. Now with the rules change, Danny, Fred and Frank all have to show up often for work training. Maybe at the same place and/or same time... oops, Huston we have a problem.

Elkad
Posts: 288
Incept: 2009-09-04

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For a short time I had to do community service to keep my food stamps. Which amounted to going down to the county Armory 3 days a week, spending 30 minutes sweeping up (8+ guys for 6 offices and a basketball court sized arena that only got used a couple times a month), and then sitting around bull****ting with the other "volunteers" for 3.5 hours.

I was just underemployed, so they only wanted 12 hours out of me to get my $120ish in SNAP. Some of the guys were there 30 hours a week. But 48 hours a month for $120 is pretty ****ty "wages".
Vernonb
Posts: 1817
Incept: 2009-06-03

East of Sheol
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Asimov said:

Quote:
Not exactly the same thing, but something funny I saw yesterday.

Work van, ladder rack with ladder... And a handicapped license plate.


Sounds like equal opportunity parking for a handicapped second story burglar.
Surprise the van didn't have a state mandated lift bucket for professional reasons. smiley

Ahhhz said:
Quote:
I was thinking more along the lines of the recipients creating the extra fake accounts. As long as Danny Deadbeat and his alias accounts Fred Fraud and Frank Fraud don't have to see the same case worker or visit the same welfare office often, odds are he won't be found out.


It was not uncommon in the 70s for these scammers to travel back and forth between states like NJ and SC in order to******the citizenry of both states. I have no idea how prevalent that still is today. People would show up in their new Lincoln Continentals or high end luxury Cadillacs when I was a stock boy/bagger working in the grocery paying for food with stamps. I barely made $70.00/week and had to ride a bike everywhere.

I was trying to earn money for school during the summer and quit after Carter decided teens didn't have to be paid minimum wage. Of course the supermarket jumped on that and then wanted to increase my hours while cutting back time for adult employees. I found another job driving a bus that paid standard wages for fewer hours and came out ahead.


Patriarch said:

Quote:
Stealing is a harsh word. I think that 'buying votes' may be a better fit.


Words mean things. What is half the problem? Most people are too damned gutless to call a spade a spade or a thief a thief. It takes two to do this dance. So don't give any crap about the less of the evils. Both sides are corrupt and CRIMINAL! I have no issues with hurting the 'feelings' of those people causing real harm to others. Screw 'em with a rusted chainsaw sideways.

Jeezz.....

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"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Aztrader
Posts: 7795
Incept: 2007-09-10

Scottsdale, AZ
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The real fraud is in the EITC where the parents are supposed to work to qualify and instead can be issued a fake 1099 and claim the credit at $1500 a kid.
Ee4fire
Posts: 329
Incept: 2011-03-24

Washington, DC
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Quote:
I see it constantly in the People's Republic of Maryland.


Where I do most of my grocery shopping.

Quote:
And then there are the cheats collecting social security for permanent disability but don't have any physical issues when they must do something for themselves.


I was just involved in case where a woman plugged her I-phone charger into a electric outlet and shocked herself and sued. She claimed permanent injuries, pain, PTSD and couldn't work any more. After going through about 8 doctors found one who gave her a neck fusion. After a 5 year long court battle she lost the case and received nothing, but SSDI gave her disability. So now the taxpayers are supporting her.

Remember, the Obama administration took two million folks off the unemployment rolls and put them on SSDI. There are illegals who are jumping on this bandwagon too.


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(Politicians), 536 commoditized temple monkeys pawing through the ruins of America in search of bribes. (The District of Corruption) works like a vending machine. You put coins in the slot, select your law, and the desired legislation slides out." Fred Reed. Some editting by me.


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