The thought that anyone would stand up and take the other side of this debate boggles the mind.

Hey *******s.... IT AIN'T ABOUT HUNTING! I'm looking straight at YOU, Romney.

And Obama.... DOUBLE-**** *YOU* PERSONALLY, AND YOUR PIECE OF **** STATE AS A WHOLE. I was required to go to your ****hole town of Chicago last week on business, and rather than cause a big stir, I decided to LAY DOWN MY RIGHTS TO DEFEND MYSELF and leave my CCW at home. **** YOU. **** YOU. **** *YOU*!!!

And I'm also*****ed that I just had to pay $3.80 for a missed-toll of $1.50 (I wasn't even driving, ****** employee shouldn't have been tearing ass through and I should have made HIM pay), which in and of itself is ridiculous. How many freaking tolls should one car have to pay just to visit and/or LEAVE your abomination of a "city" ????

That self-same city WHERE YOU CAN BE ARRESTED BY THUGS IN BLUE FOR CARRYING SELF-DEFENSE WEAPONS!

You're spot-on here Karl, as usual, and I'm proud of that little girl. The only problem I had with her actions (and that story) was that the mother claims it was the first time she had ever fired a gun! KD, we discussed this particular type of scenario over beers in Destin, specifically in regards to your young teen and my now-6 year old. We should have MORE guns, not less, in the hands of law-abiding citizens.

**** you Obama. **** you Romney. And **** ANY AND ALL of you socialist progressive ****bags who are OK with curbing MY right to self defense.

"... I also share your belief that weapons that were designed for soldiers in war theaters don't belong on our streets. And so what I'm trying to do is to get a broader conversation about how do we reduce the violence generally. Part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced. But part of it is also looking at other sources of the violence. Because frankly, in my home town of Chicago, there's an awful lot of violence and they're not using AK-47s. They're using cheap hand guns." -- Barack Obama in last debate

As if being a director of the Joyce Foundation all those years, the mission of which was to eliminate the 2nd Amendment as pertains to individuals, had not told us all we needed to know about your stance.

"What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual right to lawful defense.
Each of us has a natural right -- from God -- to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These are the
three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the
preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but the extension of our individuality? And what is
property but an extension of our faculties?
If every person has the right to defend even by force -- his person, his liberty, and his property, then it
follows that a group of men have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights
constantly." -- Bastiat

Read it all here as an illustrated downloadable PDF.
https://www.smashwords.com/books/downloa....

A recent article pointed out that violent crime is up 18% in the past year and it will get worse. The economy sucks and is getting worse. The largest beneficiaries of any bump up as been the wealthy. Welare has grown to over $1 trillion dollars while the markets hit new highs.

Bernanke's QE has drained the middle class and retirees of most of their passive income increasing poverty at all levels. The more poor people running around, the more crime.

Of course kidnapping children are primarily sicko's that should catch a bullet the minute they are caught with the child. Defending yourself is a right and unfortunately the legal system doesn't completely protect your rights. If you defend yourself inside your own home, then the law will protect you. Once you leave your home, then things change dramatically. In most cases, using lethal force outside the home will get you arrested. People are getting more and more violent due to the economy, but the laws are still pretty much limiting how far you can go once you leave your home.
Justifying lethal force outside the home can be difficult to measure. Also, the risk of that bullet flying somewhere and hitting an innocent is very high. Either way you lose.
Our government gives too many rights to the real criminals. They ignore past crimes and the burden will be on the shooter. Hiring a defense attorney can be very expensive and I don't think they give refunds if you are found innocent.

I personally own a couple of handguns plus the usual shotgun, but they stay at home when I leave the house. My 40 stays in the bed next to me and if someone wants to break in, then that is my weapon of choice.

Outside the home, I carry pepper as my defense. I don't live in a bad area, so I don't anticipate a gun waving nutjob attacking me here. As the economy erodes, there won't be any safe place to be. The propaganda machine telling the public how well the economy is doing is wearing thin with the unemployed and underemployed. The money to maintain the economy is borrowed and handed out to people to spend via welfare, SSDI and other free **** that does very little for the long-term economy. When this runs out, then we will see an explosion in crime. Time will only tell.

In all seriousness, Medal of Honor if such a thing were at all possible.

One could argue that the various attempts (bans) of the gov-thugs to outlaw weapons and ammunition is the same as confiscation of precious metals in private hands.

Weapons and ammunition are appreciating assets, in a land of deflation.

We know that RObamaney are both in favor of such asset confiscation.

Weren't the gun laws in place in Chicago now a knee jerk reaction to the Ben Wilson murder? That was 1985. Since then the murder rate in Chicago has fallen. But not nearly as much as it has elsewhere. And it still ranks as one of the highest rates of murder per capita in the nation.

Obama has been great for gun sales. He is a virtually stimulus package for hand guns.

AZTrader, seriously? You don't carry outside your home? You're in Arizona FFS! We have some of the most sensible self-defense laws in the nation. You know that Scottsdale is the direction the Golden Horde will hit first...

I don't know. I carry just to be accustomed to the practice of doing so.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!! *STEP AWAY FROM *OUR* CONSTITUTION!!!

Sad how we Americans have allowed evil people to deprive this country of exactly the qualities that made it great.

Desert,
I sell less lethal products and have what I need to stop just about anyone without the worry of being arrested. I carry a pepper gun that can fire up to 25 feet at 590 fps. Picture getting blasted with pepper with a spread of 2 feet. No way to get out of the way and it's completely non-lethal.

Just like most states, we can conceal carry, but it doesn't mean you can use it. Too many misperceptions on the ability to use your firearm. Most cities in AZ actually ban firing your weapon within city limits. The liability would be worse then the crime. When things start to crack, my PX4 will be in the console with me. The idiots running this country into the ground won't be able to control the crime.

One of the other issues here are gun locks and kids. Once again the NRA sellouts are on the job along with project Childsafe and the American right to self-defense is trampled. The only thing that kept this child safe WAS a working weapon.

I'm glad that kid didn't have to worry about fighting a lock or she'd likely be dead/seriously harmed now. It bothers me that she wasn't giving any hands on training but the kid sounds like a natural! -lol

Instead of truly punishing the perpetrators of crimes, the anti-self defense crowd has managed to get laws passed in many states that essentially keep persons from reacting quickly in their own homes to protect themselves. Didn't kidnapping bring a death penalty at one time? Now these monsters are allowed to roam the streets with impunity.

There are no perfect systems but making a self-defense weapon useless is no real solution.

Cook county in Illinois is now considering a 'violence tax' on guns and ammo - more back door infringement is what it is.

Why don't they just come clean and rename their county. Crook county would be a lot more honest name for them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH_nkKkTl....

Dispatch "You still have your mom's gun there?"

12 year old "Yes I do I have it in my hand."

Dispatch "OK I want you to hang on to the gun."

The reporterette describes the call as frantic. I think this youngin' was pretty calm. $250,000 bail for a criminal who has a prior for attempted abduction. Mama is proud of her little girl, and very relieved she still has her little girl.

Correction: Intruder allegedly abducted a "17 year old girl with a diminished mental capacity" in 2011"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aqxHDAMv....
This news short also doesn't report the dispatchers instruction to "hang on to the gun."

Another story today......

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/deputies-....

Some *******s are pointing hellfire missals at us all. The same guys sold guns to my enemies. Thats the world we live in. They are accountable to no one.

People are human, all of them have the potential to do wrong. We all need to have the ability to defend ourselves from any person or threat. Not to live in fear but to be free. To be free you dont need anything other than equal footing.

For any government to claim they are immune to the human condition is preposterous. So the question to me is. We know they are lying to us but are they lying to themselves?

the 2nd Amendment exists and must not be diminished, abrogated or infringed.

Concealed Carry Laws, my ass!

Before Obama was elected, I had a 22 rifle in the house...

Now, I have a CC Permit, a Remington 870 Police, an M1A and lots of ammo.

I recently moved out of the city and bought property that has a 24/7/365 creek and....

Well I'm not telling everything on the web...LOL

The Girl deserves a medal and probably some psychological counseling too.

Great Post Karl!!!

"passive income" the great cognitive dissonance that money has any value. I keep trying to explain to people, debt is money, and they keep increasing the debt, and when you never had a risk free positive rate of return whether short term T-bills were 21 percent or 0.2 percent, you are just as screwed in 2012 as you were in 1981.
Increasing violence may be a sign of upcoming regime change.

Quote:

"passive income" the great cognitive dissonance that money has any value. I keep trying to explain to people, debt is money, and they keep increasing the debt, and when you never had a risk free positive rate of return whether short term T-bills were 21 percent or 0.2 percent, you are just as screwed in 2012 as you were in 1981.
Increasing violence may be a sign of upcoming regime change.

And thus we have the farmland boom and to some extent a timberland boom. People no longer trust that they will get their money back from a financial investment must less a positive return on capital. People are just praying for a return OF capital.

I hate to follow my own post but,...

Quote:

Your unalienable right to life is meaningless unless you are able to defend it, if necessary, no matter where you may be.

And it is a fact that on rare occasion you may need to do exactly that.

It is for this precise reason -- your right to defend your life against any who may try to take that right from you -- that the 2nd Amendment exists and must not be diminished, abrogated or infringed.

I wish we did a better job in school of explaining to our next generation that the Constitution does NOT give you these rights, they are inately yours since you are a human being. All the Consitiution is supposed to do is stop others, and especially government, from taking them away from you. You don't have a Consitiutional right to "keep and bear arms" it is your right as a human being!

Flap

Completely agree with your assessment KD. The 1st Amendment guarantees the right to life and liberty, so it should follow that the right to defend one's life and liberty is part and parcel of that.

What I wouldn't give for the 2nd Amendment to be worded more clearly to specifically enumerate that, instead of the vague, arguable, multi-interpret-able mess it actually is.

You mean those "unalienable rights" to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" which were written by a man who owned hundreds of slaves?

What governments say - back then and nowadays - is much less important than what they actually do.