I will fully support the total ban on handguns; just as soon as we win the "war on drugs"...because if you outlaw guns, you'll instantly have a "war on guns" on your hands....

...and if we haven't figured out how to win the "war on drugs"...aka...completely stop illegal imports as well as home grown inventory...how are we going to win the "war on handguns"?

Ask that of the Liberals in favor of gun bans...

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I really don't get Liberals on this one...a "war on guns" guaranteed failure example is right in front of us in the "drug war"...and their solution to winning the drug war is to legalize drugs!

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To me, the solution is to arm as many sane, well trained, responsible private citizens as possible. I don't look forward to shootouts between law-abiders and law-breakers...but I sure as hell favor that instead of law breakers being the only one with the guns!

Debtpie,

What an outstanding argument! I've never thought of it that way.

I'm gonna have to use that one.

This guy is obviously not a Lone gunman or some kind of head case. He was well equipped. No one has access to that type of equipment, except the Feds and some local law enforcement agencies.

Quote:

I really don't get Liberals on this one...a "war on guns" guaranteed failure example is right in front of us in the "drug war"...and their solution to winning the drug war is to legalize drugs!

Great post, another good example of this liberal backwards-think I outlined earlier. Guy driving SUV past a crowd of people = safe, same guy standing there with a holstered gun = dangerous. Liberal "logic" at its finest.

Isn't there a difference between "gun control" and "banning" guns. The argument against banning is clear to me - bans don't work and where they do they only effect the good guys. Control seems like a different matter, restrictions and licensing seem sensible in a least helping to reduce accidents and rage/drink related use.

I speak as a Brit where access to guns is a lot less easy than in the US.

Richard - you are mistaken, with enough time, money, and internet time, ALL of that stuff can be purchased LEGALLY (state dependent). The only thing that stood out are the CS grenades, which I am sure, can be legally sourced.

Most of the terror plot arrests over the last few years all were due to a government agent infiltrating some group and encouraging the members on with a plot and then stopping it with an arrest. How did he learn to make all these explosives?? I've seen estimates that he spent about $20,000 on weapons, ammo and gear.

We know that the Justice Department was selling weapons to Mexican Drug gangs, all the while complaining about guns from gun shows in Texas being the reason for violence in Mexico. I'm sorry but the timing of this is suspicious. There's all this concern about some UN Gun Treaty that the Senate is considering which would supposedly invalidate the 2nd Amendment and then this happens. How is any Senator now not going to vote for this?? Given Fast and Furious, I would not be surprised if this kid was egged on by someone and it was decided not to stop him. I know, our wonderful government would never do such a thing! Yeah right!! Read a history book.

It's probably more frightening to consider that this otherwise smart, highly educated kid just snapped. From what we hear the reason he was back in school was because the only job he could find was at McDonalds. Well there are lots of college degreed people out there that cannot find work who find themselves disillusioned with the reality they were sold that a college degree = success.

Student loans?

He was working on a masters in neuroscience and had quite probably taken a substantial number of chemistry classes at that point - the information to make damn year any explosive you can think of is freely (and easily) available on the net.

@Richardebel - To the contrary, the shooter is not the only civilian with that kind of gear. It is a self-deception to believe otherwise. While, no doubt, you believe so to maintain the structural integrity of your perception of the world, some of us do maintain a fairly significant amount of equipment.

When you spend the better part of your life upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States of America, having certain things on hand becomes habit... especially if you're one of the small percentage of people in this country who tries to see things as they really are and not as you want them to be. I've seen the other side of the thin veneer of civilization here in this country thanks to places like New Orleans during the Katrina relief efforts immediately after they got hit, and I don't think most people would argue against being prepared.

Guns are so prevalent in the United States that banning them would have the same effect as declawing your cat and sending it outside at night to fend off the neighborhood tomcats. With gun sales off the charts in the last 4 years good luck with rounding them up. A 'ban' or laws that effectively strip the commoner from the means of protecting himself would be a huge fail. I think the oligarchs understand that. Oh, the handwringers will try to slowly whittle away at the 2nd Amendment but a 'ban'? Certainly not in my lifetime. There would have to be a complete upheaval of societal norms in America for that to happen. Not impossible with the perfect storm - but highly, highly unlikely.

Personally I'm growing tired of seeing Holmes picture at every major site or channel I visit. Now we get to learn all about his life from diaperhood to present. I'm expecting a 2 hour special on the 'Life of Mr. Holmes' in the next week. Instant stardom for any loser with intricately elaborate violent schemes. The burning need to be a somebody. Nuts or not - he needs a state appointed visit with the grim reaper in a timely manner. He ruined a lot of lives - some living - some dead. The media coverage is over the top and only encourages other flakes to pull this same stunt. Sensationalism at it's finest.

@ Daveincsa - $20k? Not even.

(All this info is off the top of my head and may not be accurate due to time having passed since I looked at similar items)

The AR-15, a S&W, retails for around $1500
Remington 870 12-ga shotgun: $550
Glock in 40 S&W: $500
5.56 (M885): $400/1k
12-guage OO-buck: .60-1.00 per shell
.40 S&W: $350/1k

Decent ballistic helmet, new: $300
Decent plate carrier, new: $100
Decent plates: 300/plate


That should get you an idea that $20k is a bit nuts; he probably spent a good chunk short of half that.

Aurora massacre 'an argument for more guns' says lobbyist

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/....

Mr Pratt told the programme: "It is very sad that there was a no-guns policy in that theatre and that nobody had thought to take a gun with them anyway.

"At a church in the same city four months ago something somewhat similar occurred but with a very different outcome.

"A dirtbag ran his car into another car in a church parking lot and stormed out of his car, killed a woman, and people were leaving the church at that time.

"So as soon as he did that somebody that had a concealed firearm drew down and killed the attacker, and his slaughter was put to rest immediately.

the recurring theme of "poor oppressed weakling invokes superhuman power to vanquish his oppressors" permeates entertainment from Beowulf to Star Wars...

what is it makes a few individuals act out that early immprint ?

it's always the quiet withdrawn ones, it seems.



a.

If you're European looking at raw U.S. homicide data, understand that the data is skewed by certain extremely high-violence areas. Our absurd drug war has created a rash of (somewhat) organized crime, particularly in inner cities.

http://www.streetgangs.com/topics/2003/0....

America is a relatively violent place when lumped into a single number, but it's not the guns doing it:

http://www.novatownhall.com/blog/2007/09....

It's been said a million times, and it was correct a million times. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. We need to look at WHY people are killing each other in the U.S., gangs, the drug war, socioeconomic factors, mental illness.. Instead of focusing on HOW they are killing each other. The "guns vs murder" data for U.S. states shows that gun prevalence is statistically irrelevant to the murder rate:

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I will fully support the total ban on handguns; just as soon as we win the "war on drugs"...because if you outlaw guns, you'll instantly have a "war on guns" on your hands....
...and if we haven't figured out how to win the "war on drugs"...aka...completely stop illegal imports as well as home grown inventory...how are we going to win the "war on handguns"?
Ask that of the Liberals in favor of gun bans...

LOL, yes, because a 6 year old cannot out-argue your avg. liberal on any subject. Why you lose, why we lose is because we take the goals presented by the progressives at face value, and then argue against them. The goal is not handgun but rather population control and enslavement.

The goal isn’t equal rights or equal outcomes but full socialism.

And the war on drugs is achieving its goal – the American Prison Complexe’s Gulag is full, many useless eater cops drive/fly around killing weeds on the taxpayer’s dime for 45 bucks per hour, CIA etc. operators can make enough cash on a single planeload to finance operations in third world countries for years, the US CONstituion continues to be destroyed (4th Amendment anyone? Ah, **** it! We after drugs!), etc etc.

The first .Pres who attempts to legalize drugs will have so many assassin’s bullets coming in from the vested parties, his undertaker will be tasked with burying a red mist.

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This guy is obviously not a Lone gunman or some kind of head case. He was well equipped. No one has access to that type of equipment, except the Feds and some local law enforcement agencies.

Sarcasm? Bulletproofme.com has good III-A concealable for 399. Gas masks from cheaperthandirt go for 10 bucks surplus on sale. I rec. you buy your armor before they outlaw it.

Quote:

Most of the terror plot arrests over the last few years all were due to a government agent infiltrating some group and encouraging the members on with a plot and then stopping it with an arrest. How did he learn to make all these explosives?? I've seen estimates that he spent about $20,000 on weapons, ammo and gear.

Yeah. Right. And I read early stories of 2 shooters, multiple car bombs…the media’s incompetence is exceeded only by its venality. His equipment could have been done for as little as ~3500 bucks.

Armor 400
Rifle 1000
Pistol 500
Gas Mask 10
Ammo 500
Kevlar helmet 350
Rifle Plates 350

Supposed bombs at his APT, who knows? Few hundred bucks maybe.

The best you can do is allow people to be able to defend themselves, and to insure creatures like this are executed within 7 days.

But you see my little hoi polloi, he won't be. Violent thugs are let out to prey on the people to create chaos and doom so the sheep beg for more .gov 'protection' - and consequently less freedoms and higher taxes.

Any by drawing his case out for years, the wound can be kept open for years and years and years...and milked for all the progressive propaganda value.*

Sammy the weed smoker gets 2 years, while Violent Vinny the Rapist is out in 4 months. Get a clue.

*My hammering on progressives in no way is support for the 'conservatives' or the neocons who have reserved their own special place in Hell.

Yeah about those student loans, has he effectively discharged them? No bankruptcy court required? Maybe it was student loan balance that drove him to the brink...

The unusual point to me is that he didn't kill himself.

He had no intention of loosing his life. He was dressed for utmost personal protection, and acted in a way to make sure he stayed alive. He left and waited outside by his car. No escape attempt. Not trying to escape and give a reason to shoot him.

Debtpie, you hit the nail on the head. I was trying to argue the same point to a ****head this morning. Even that wasn't working. If the gov outlawed guns, there would be a giant sucking sound representing the rush of illegal fully automatic guns rushing in from all over the world. The Mexican drug cartels would probably be the #1 importer. It to make it worse, these guns would find their way mostly to criminals. Yep, the wars on drugs, alcohol, whatever, have worked so well!

I've already had this argument at work.

Gun/weapon control would do what? Lot of this stuff requires a permit/license/background check to obtain. If not flat out illegal via the explosives.

300million guns in country. Billions around the world for black market supply should they become illegal.

This gun-free utopia so many want CANNOT EXIST.

BUT BUT JACK WHAT ABOUT AUSTRALIA, JAPAN, UK

We are not an isolated island monoculture. Gun control will not be nearly effective with the culture diversity and landmass coverage.

You see this in large metro areas with bans already in place. Is there any shortage of guns with large supply outside the city limits, and endless groups within society willing to exploit their locals?


Criminals still have weapons, perhaps at higher costs, but anyone willing to spend 500-2000 dollars will pay it. Why wouldn't you to have complete power of each citizen/business owner? Cost of doing business/crime.

Now one does not even need to go out to buy a gun, thanks to 3D printers just make it yourself at home - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla.... 9mins in to relevant segment. Re posted due to bad link.

Pff, 3D printers as weapons factories - let me know when you can print a material with the strength of cast or forged steel.

Bans are still a useless (and criminal) effort, however, as anyone with the gumption to do so can manufacture firearms at home using relatively common machine shop equipment and basic raw materials.

I am curious if any of those booby traps involved gasoline? There are many 'survialist' books on the market. Though I have no problem with the idea there are always those that will misuse information.

One gallon of atomized gasoline (dispersed in air) is the equivalent of 14-15 sticks of dynamite. My point is there are a lot of materials out there that can be used for nefarious purposes. Firearms actually have a finite limit to the people they can be harmed. A person making bombs (mass destruction)can out do any civilian firearm.

What the hell did a pHd thesis have to do will killing everyone in sight? Jeez.
Its almost like the guy is some type of plant for a hidden agenda? Is anyone truly that crazy?