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| Europe Isn't Over Folks in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Crzymorse
Posts: 1189
Incept: 2010-06-25
Maryland
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$1 trillion plus annual deficits will continue until they suddenly stop. Figure 1/2 a trillion a year will find it's way onto the fed's balance sheet.
Saying that if the Euro collapses the 10 year treasury might go sub 1% and the Euro is going to collaspe. The EU countries are hopefully buying enough time to get their own infrastructure back in shape before they come to the end of their monetary flume ride. Thank god they are thoroughly demilitarized.
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Ghopper
Posts: 2309
Incept: 2011-06-11
Staten Island, NY
Online
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Quote:"How do you "rescue" something when you refuse to have an honest conversation about what's broken? Nobody over in Euroland -- or here in the United States -- is doing so." Nigel Farage somewhat tells the truth to their faces (leaving out the UK's situation and role in flushing us down the toilet) and they just laugh at him.
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Savingsaretheway
Posts: 118
Incept: 2011-12-16
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Crzymorse, I agree with you regarding the effect on the US Treasury.
I think the point that many people miss is that the situation in Europe is currently helping the US economy by keeping both interest rates and food and fuel costs much lower than they otherwise would be.
People say that it is hurting US exports. The exporting of what? Granted, it's hurting the sales of US companies that build their goods in China and sell them in Europe, but the economic effects from the ongoing collapse in Europe will be minimal in that regard. What's going to get us is the domino effect in the banking system once the Europeans finally have their "Lehman moment."
For awhile, the markets had the notion of "at least Germany is holding up" to fall back on, but after the production data that came out today, even that is deteriorating.
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Twainfan
Posts: 147
Incept: 2010-12-01
Minnesota
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The people are starting to wake up... but it's too late. Even my brother has been asking me questions about all this stuff going on.. and he's usually completely oblivious. I'm just waiting for that first domino to fall and start the chain reaction. The sooner we get this over with, the better.
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Supercleanfund
Posts: 1469
Incept: 2007-11-12
The Island City, CA
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- * - * - * - * - * - Never underestimate the power of wishful thinking.
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Swingtrader
Posts: 9108
Incept: 2007-08-12
United Oligarchic Goldman Sachs States of America
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It's only just begun!
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Swing said "Well, it is collapsing as we watch.This is what it looks like." Australian federal judge Jayne Jagot, doing what US judges need to do!
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Dashingdwl
Posts: 9757
Incept: 2007-06-26
los angeles
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Where are the MMTer's (Modern Monetary Theorists), you know, those crazy folks that think the government can never run out of money?
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When you are hard and disciplined, you can be principled. People fear you because they have no leverage against you. It's the truest form of Liberty.
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Tm22721
Posts: 976
Incept: 2008-01-09
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The Titanic passengers are in their lifejackets, in the water.
And the captain is still telling them that they will be arriving in NYC within the hour.
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The country is terminally ill and IT JUST WANTS A PILL.
The only way up is down.
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Bluebird
Posts: 1381
Incept: 2008-05-02
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Twainfan said "The people are starting to wake up."
Well, around me, I don't see anyone waking up. They have other priorities. It's spend and spend some more using credit cards, taking exotic vacations, buying houses and cars and the latest gadgets because technology keeps getting better and faster. If I happen to mention something about the economy, they roll their eyeballs as if I'm the crazy nut who reads blogs.
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Eighty6thebs
Posts: 4182
Incept: 2007-06-26
It's contained to sub-prime!
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+1 Blue.
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"Sounds to me like you guys a couple of bookies" - Billy Ray Valentine
"No I am not scared, and neither should you be!" - Iraqi Information Minister
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8849
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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Time for EU bankers to print some more debt backed currency and kick the can. Let's see how much more road we have left. Methinks the end o the road is near.
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Eighty6thebs
Posts: 4182
Incept: 2007-06-26
It's contained to sub-prime!
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TMD - I don't think we're even close to near. I think all these guys will keep printing money until the people starve, the pitch forks come out, and the governments are overthrown. I just don’t see them doing the responsible thing and shrinking government and spending and triggering the depression we will face. They would rather the people be inched into a personal recession over many years by debasing the currency all while claiming GDP and stocks are higher. Basically I’m saying they will continue to lie until the lie itself can’t be sustained by the shear facts. When people can’t afford food and energy, this will stop. Right now the people can afford that PLUS cell phones, cable TV, and an endless supply of consumer goods. We have a long way to go before J6P is mad enough to take this bitch back.
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"Sounds to me like you guys a couple of bookies" - Billy Ray Valentine
"No I am not scared, and neither should you be!" - Iraqi Information Minister
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Badges
Posts: 45
Incept: 2010-12-30
Massachusetts
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I've been reading a lot of modern German history lately, wondering how the first modern welfare/warfare state funded itself. Also, our Revolutionary, 1812 and Civil War funding. Let me put it this way. Little people get crushed. Its what large, i.e. wasteful governments do. It's their nature. Like swimimg with Great Whites.
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Bluebird
Posts: 1381
Incept: 2008-05-02
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I think the can will be kicked as long as it can. Then kaboom. The collapse will be epic, and fast. Totally clueless people will be in shock. The money they think they had in portfolios, will be wiped out. Only then, will J6P be angry.
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Smacktle
Posts: 1359
Incept: 2009-01-20
Texas
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I don't think people will wake up untill the stock market crashes. Having the market so high gives people a false sense of security. Their retirement seems safe, so it makes them feel safe.
My son & I were camping with the Cub Scouts this weekend and the parents I spoke to seem to believe that if we can just get rid of Obama, Romney will come in and save the day. I don't even argue anymore.
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The faults of the burglar are the qualities of the financier. - George Bernard Shaw
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8849
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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I don't think we have a year. JMTC but we're past the point of no return. If they would do the right thing they'd blow their heads off so I'm sure they will continue to kick the can until they can't. I just think they can't kick it much farther. $150 oil is going to be a bitch. Or what if it's $150 Euro oil? Or $200. And it isn't only oil - it will be all commodities.
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Marketpirate
Posts: 1636
Incept: 2007-11-30
New York
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Well all I can say is that the band is still playing here on the "USS New York" Most of the passengers have not even put on their life jackets yet, and there's very little talk about that "pretty little" iceberg ahead. 
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The bull**** stops when the money runs out, and not a moment before.
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Winstonsmith2009
Posts: 1060
Incept: 2009-08-05
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"I think the point that many people miss is that the situation in Europe is currently helping the US economy by keeping both interest rates and food and fuel costs much lower than they otherwise would be."
Which, like all artificial manipulations of interest rates results in extensive malinvestment, the major one in this case being the ability of the fedgov to obtain nearly free money allowing the avoidance of dealing with the unsustainable, the >10% of GDP annual increase in our national debt which, once interest rates increase back to norms, will be ruinous. This is the ZIRP trap mentioned by Kyle Bass, the one that will get Japan before it gets us.
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Mayorquimby
Posts: 13909
Incept: 2008-09-18
The Archaic Past
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USS New York? Par-tay like it's your birthday.
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They who wish to hurt you, work within the law. - Morrissey
Gold is theft.
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Mannfm11
Posts: 3539
Incept: 2009-02-28
DFW, Tx
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I'm looking for $20 oil. All this money has no owner. It is just another counter asset. When the policies work, the interest rates are going through the roof and the reverse will happen, as debts can't be rolled.
The real problem hit when the players couldn't trade their **** any more. Bennie bought the clog in the drain, but the clog was a huge pile of assets the economy was using to expand previously. No one wanted mortgages all of a sudden in 2008 and they were the assets the banks were using as collateral to fund their cash shortfalls. The debt rolls until it can't.
The real purpose for the QE's and LTRO's is to cover up bank insolvency. They can't fix these problems without bailing out the banks and if they actually bail out the banks, the bankers can't hide their crimes and keep stealing. If it was widows and orphans that held all this bad debt in Europe, they would just default and let them keep the bag. But, it is the banker and politician fund that has blown up. They are primary screw buddies of the Earth, inflating and financing their take out of our pockets.
The real basis of libertarian economics involves the battle between the political means and the economic means. ZIRP is a political means rip off of the private economy. Bank charters and the fictional accounting that allows them to exist without fear of bank runs are a creation of the state. The appearance to the majority of the public is the deposit insurance is to guarantee their money, while in fact it is to guarantee the bankers money. The game appears to be centered around the reserve requirements when in fact the game is nothing more than bank solvency. In 2007, there were "no reserves". I read somewhere there was $10 billion in the entire system. The cash put out by the Fed has left the banking system years ago. Their IOU's between themselves were no longer stable. TBTF was financing itself out of the smaller banks and the entire system rested on the creditworthiness of the TBTF banks and the shadow banking system. Every dime in existence, save for maybe the coinage, was created out of bank lending.
When you or I go to the bank and take out a loan, lets say to buy a car, the money they create is just as much money as the money government creates off its debt. The difference is the government isn't liable for my debt. I have been reading Albert Nock's Jefferson, which can be found in the mises.org literature site under Nock's name. Seems Jefferson didn't understand a lot, but what he did understand was the national debt was a source of income for the financially connected to be levied against the productive portion of the economy. The entire aim of Jeffersons administration was to shrink government and pay off the debt. That idea seems to be impossible to implement today, as cuts always mean less of more instead of cuts. I think it would be devastating to the other financial interest, the value of stocks and real estate.
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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
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Jackl
Posts: 2234
Incept: 2008-01-17
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It's fine guys. Just get with the plan. We'll make the kids buy our overpriced housing. Overpriced medical. Overpriced energy. Overpriced education. Overpriced Government.
Meanwhile we'll leave them increasing less jobs, lower payer, and devaluing currency.
What could possibly go wrong?
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Marvinmartian
Posts: 750
Incept: 2011-03-16
Pasadena, CA
Online
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Here is what the Bloomberg article cited has to say about the Bundesbank position: Quote:Fiscal Compact
When European leaders agreed on the fiscal compact championed by Merkel in late January, Draghi said it was “the first step toward the fiscal union” and would “strengthen confidence in the euro area.”
Weidmann said it fell short.
“Obviously in the negotiations, as often in the past, things were watered down,” he said on Feb. 1. “It’s clear that the cornerstone for a real fiscal union hasn’t been laid here.”
For Weidmann, putting Europe’s monetary union on a sound footing involves governments either giving up some sovereignty over national budgets or setting stricter fiscal rules and ensuring they’re enforced.
Neither has happened yet, he said during a March 28 speech at Chatham House in London. While charming his audience with humor and a down-to-earth style, Weidmann offered a sobering assessment.
“The time has come to move from containing the crisis to resolving it,” he said. “If we have the will to make the right choices, we will be able to rebalance Europe and lay the foundation for a stronger, more stable monetary union.” The problem is, governments other than Germany have been passing out skittles and deficit spending to accomplish that. Germany is saying: you either fix it, or we will fix it for you. Wars have been fought over less.
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Randy123
Posts: 5776
Incept: 2008-09-24
Earth
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It never ended. Printing delays. Doesn't fix. When will bulls learn
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China is the Enemy. Wake Up.
New Normal. Same As The Old Awful.
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Seanmiller
Posts: 80
Incept: 2009-10-29
North Denver
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Jackl Said: Quote:It's fine guys. Just get with the plan. We'll make the kids buy our overpriced housing. Overpriced medical. Overpriced energy. Overpriced education. Overpriced Government. How am I supposed to do that? Im broke and have bunches of student loan debt...
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