| User Info
| Costa Concordia: A Different View in forum [Market-Ticker]
|
Phev
Posts: 440
Incept: 2009-05-17
|
"the rock he hit was charted"
More than 2000 years of sailing (modern age) in this area, assure you that chart were precise and accurate... It was not as a terra incognita or very poorly visited. There are no tide in mediterranean sea as well... It sounds that this "captain" is a real dunce...
"That he decided to run for the beach after he holed the ship (which, incidentally, is why it didn't sink -- the water there isn't deep enough!) almost-certainly saved lives."
Hum he had no propulsion (engine stopped when he collides)... so - no pump - no electric power - did he still have helm ? (wasn't the helm all starboard jammed due to lack of energy) The only solution for him (200 foot hole in the hull) was to run aground...
|
Genesis
Posts: 130792
Incept: 2007-06-26
|
I don't care if that particular rock was charted or not. If the tracks claimed for that vessel are accurate the fact is that he was too damned close to a known rocky shoreline, at night, and thus by definition operating in an imprudent manner.
----------
I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
|
Phev
Posts: 440
Incept: 2009-05-17
|
yes you're right... 300 yards from a rocky shoreline... If you have a helm problem or an engine problem you're done... No time and even place (the boat is some 800 foot long and you have to let chain cable in order to secure the anchoring) to dive an anchor...
|
Joejohns
Posts: 694
Incept: 2010-09-09
Banned
|
I guess I expect too much, but I am betting this is not the first time this idiot has shown off.
|
Jimg
Posts: 180
Incept: 2009-02-04
Dunedin, FL
|
I took a Carnival Cruise out of Tampa in October. We had to muster, but they did not make us break out the lifejackets this time.
|
Bagbalm
Posts: 4262
Incept: 2009-03-19
Just North of Detroit
|
I am not surprised the rock was CHARTED. But did it show on GPS? Charts are such bulky awkward things to consult when you have this nice screen...
What do you want to bet this could be like the motorists turning down the railroads tracks or taking 'shortcuts' across seasonal roads clearly marked as such and impassable, but their GPS said it was the shortest route? When you get far enough north the GPS has so little data it doesn't display entire islands.
One article I read accused the company of hiring on the basis of personality and ability to smoothly interact with the passengers rather than depth of boat handling skills.
The Telegraph had an article that infuriated me because I could not get the comments section to work for me. The writer made excuses for the captain leaving and questioned if we could expect them to "go down with the ship". THAT was never the question here. It was a false, deceptive headline. He had a responsibility to get his passengers off - THEN he could jolly well save himself.
|
Genesis
Posts: 130792
Incept: 2007-06-26
|
Yep.
My "little" 45-footer was "only" 25 gross tons, but it was quite capable of killing everyone on board if mishandled or something just plain old-fashioned went wrong, and I was always acutely aware of that.
I came to people's aid more than once at sea -- that's a duty as old as seafaring is. If you're a vessel master of any size you simply don't step DOWN into a lifeboat, and you sure as hell don't leave a sinking vessel as her master unless you're the last one off.
----------
I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
|
Cobra2411
Posts: 10349
Incept: 2007-06-26
Philly P.a.
|
So what? The high water alarms went off and they just chalked it up to an electrical problem?
----------
To err is human. To really **** things up takes government.
|
Mannfm11
Posts: 3552
Incept: 2009-02-28
DFW, Tx
|
The Captain sounds like a real idiot to me. A boat that size is like a loaded down hill train. You just don't get off the track when something gets in the way. Boats scare me when idiots are running them.
----------
The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
|
Snooze
Posts: 2829
Incept: 2007-07-09
florida
|
I see they've already arrested him and given him the perp walk. The lesson here is that if you wreck an economy through fraud and malfeasance and abandon ship with all your loot then it's OK; however, if you wreck a vacation platform and try to slink off you go to jail quite publicly.
Master Captains just don't rank alongside bankers. Go Figure....
----------
Wealth is found in the warmth of the sun, in the coolness of moist soil, in the taste of fresh air, and in the pulse of your heart. Plant a seed and harvest your riches.
|
Mondocondo
Posts: 3686
Incept: 2007-12-03
Miami
|
NYT is reporting the captain says he slipped and landed in lifeboat. Quote:GIGLIO, Italy — The saga of the stricken cruise liner Costa Concordia took further twists Wednesday, with a warning from Italy’s environment minister that it could sink and news that the captain claimed he had slipped on deck and tumbled overboard, winding up in a lifeboat during the panicky passenger escape — not abandoned ship like a coward, as accused. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/19/world/....
|
Tickergroupie
Posts: 431
Incept: 2010-03-24
|
|
Poid
Posts: 610
Incept: 2010-03-08
|
the seafaring equivalent of "i slipped and landed on top of her" Charts, GPS etc are all irrelevant here. It is common freaking sense that you do NOT sail a boat that big that close to a rocky shoreline, especially at high speed. You have no time nor room to manoeuvre. Then add in the fact that the Captain abandoned ship and he is screwed. But as Karl highlighted there is an overlay to it, which is the lack of safety briefings and keeping the boat's status hidden from passengers, that has cost lives. This, to me, looks a cultural problem within Costa and possibly Carnival. Companies that take safety seriously do not have skipped safety briefings, and they are quick to report incidents as they have no tolerance for such dodginess. At the very least Costa as a whole looks like it has been very complacent about safety and it has bit them hard. At worst Carnival as a whole has to overhaul its culture. EDIT: Bagbalm that Telegraph article has appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-an....I can see why you are infuriated; the whole thing is just excuse after excuse as to why the Captain abandoning ship is perfectly fine. He is "only human" after all. This type of ****headed thinking really grinds my gears. Its as if he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, when in fact this is the culmination of how he has handled himself over a much longer period. There are no excuses, and he knows his duty; its a duty he accepted when he was given the ship. I am sick of people being excused for actions that were very deliberate and they need to be held accountable for.
|
Blueskies
Posts: 72
Incept: 2011-05-15
|
this is the quote that made me go "huh?"
"I did not abandon any ship, the ship was sinking, so we jumped in the water" Schettino said.
and btw, what happened to the "fell into a lifeboat" scenario? did he jump into the water or fall into a lifeboat? neither being the correct actions of a ship's captain of course.
|
Jslique
Posts: 467
Incept: 2008-07-28
Melbourne
|
so many similarities with this captain and our financial captains.
|
Drb
Posts: 195
Incept: 2011-01-02
TX
|
Italians say that there is a coast guard video (in Italian) with them questioning him right after the ship hit the rocks - and he appears to be completely drunk. Also, there is a report of him being with a woman at the time of accident. That woman was supposedly neither a crew member nor a passenger. See http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan....So it is actually worse than it seems on surface.
|
Ladyofthelake
Posts: 1680
Incept: 2008-02-26
* Go For The Gold * MA
|
Awesome photos of the Costa Concordia. The close up shots shows the ship just about jumped the rocks. The divers are seen near the large gash in the ships hull. http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2012/01....Italian prosecutors want to speak to a mystery blonde woman seen with Captain Francesco Schettino just moments before his ship crashed. Schettino denies the charges of manslaughter and abandoning ship that have been made against him. But investigators believe the 25-year-old female seen on the Concordia’s bridge just before the accident may have answers. http://www.euronews.net/2012/01/19/itali....
----------
"It is better to wish that you were "in", than to wish you were "out" by Gen ..... The Market that is ....
|
Billmasi
Posts: 29
Incept: 2007-11-08
Vero Beach FL
|
"I like cruises; they're zero-stress, lay-in-hottub-and-drink-booze relaxfests. "
Some would say "Lie-in-hottub" but I'll bet there's a lot of laying going on, too.
:>)
|
Genesis
Posts: 130792
Incept: 2007-06-26
|
I've never gotten laid in a cruise ship hottub. It would be rather tricky to do without getting caught but I bet it's possible.
----------
I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
|
Mediocre_fred
Posts: 80
Incept: 2008-09-22
The Sticks, Washington
|
Yes, he is "only human." He is also a man, in fact, a commander, master of his ship and her crew. As master, he has a duty to see to the safety of his passengers and crew. Sometimes duty is bitter. Sometimes it even ends in death. So what?
If you do not want that duty, do not take on mastery of a ship. full stop.
If you fail in your duty, do not be surprised that your failure of nerve draws the wrath of the public and prosecution from maritime officials. You have demonstrated yourself to be less than a man, willing to abandon the persons in your care to death, in order to save your own louse-infested hide. The only way he could redeem himself at this point would be to acknowledge his failure, make a full apology, and accept without complaint his punishment. But this clown is never going to do even one of those things.
Schettino was, however, perfectly willing to accept the prerogatives of Captaincy, including the pay, prestige and apparently the company and attention of beautiful women. Those prerogative come with a price.
|
Genesis
Posts: 130792
Incept: 2007-06-26
|
Yep.
I'll run the ship and if I **** up I accept that I may go down with it.
----------
I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
|
Mac
Posts: 159
Incept: 2009-09-04
|
There is a saying from the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy that covers this issue perfectly: "If you hit a rock, you're wrong."
|
Genesis
Posts: 130792
Incept: 2007-06-26
|
The way the rules are written if you hit ANYTHING it is almost impossible to entirely blameless...
----------
I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
|
Tesla
Posts: 15543
Incept: 2008-04-03
State of Disbelief
|
Quote:It is common freaking sense that you do NOT sail a boat that big that close to a rocky shoreline, especially at high speed. You have no time nor room to manoeuvre. Sorry, as someone with close relations to a bunch of river pilots, I can tell you that this type of work is their type of job. River pilots routinely maneuver large ships at speed in close waters. The difference is, they are intimately familiar with the route and all its hazards. The average tanker ship takes in excess of 7 miles to come to a full stop from full ahead; I'd bet that this cruise ship wasn't a whole lot different. If he'd simply been proceeding at half-ahead he'd have not avoided a hole in the hull, either. As an example, here's a pic of a ship that routinely transits the Delaware River to Sun Oil, Hog Island, PA.  This ship is 1200 ft long, 160 ft wide, and just 2 ft shy of the bottom of the river, max depth. She transits the Delaware River at between 10-15 kts. Just how much of a margin of error is that ? Yet the Delaware pilots haven't had any accidents with this or any of the other thousands of ships they pilot each and every year in weather from warm and sunny to near hurricane conditions. The difference between river pilots and the Captain of the Concordia was training. What made this accident happen was two factors: 1-the captain was apparently distracted when he should have been paying close attention in near-shore water and 2-he didn't have "in-depth" knowledge of the local waters.
----------
"Even a dog knows the difference between being stumbled over and being kicked." -Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
"Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." -Samuel Adams
|