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| OWS Constitution Working Group: Look Out Tea Party! in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Templar223
Posts: 779
Incept: 2008-04-28
Champaign, IL
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Quote: Peaceful Occupy protests degenerate into chaos
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20111103....
Nov 3, 7:21 AM (ET)
By TERENCE CHEA, LISA LEFF and TERRY COLLINS
OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) - A day of demonstrations in Oakland that began as a significant step toward expanding the political and economic influence of the Occupy Wall Street movement, ended with police in riot gear arresting dozens of protesters who had marched through downtown to break into a vacant building, shattering windows, spraying graffiti and setting fires along the way.
"We go from having a peaceful movement to now just chaos," said protester Monique Agnew, 40.
Yeah, these are just like - or are better than the TEA Party. The above was the first article was the first thing that greeted me when I looked at the news this morning. Karl: Sure, a tiny subset of these people are freedom-loving, Constitutionalists. The rest? Well, unless you're blinded by your hope that these people might represent real, positive change for the crooks in banking, finance and other favored industries of this administration (those "green" industries and companies, like Solyndra), these people are with few exceptions nothing but anarchists and modern, far-left hippies. In my opinion, you are hitching your wagon to a bunch of people who do not represent the long-term interests of you and your family or 99% (pun intended) of the rest of us here in America. The editorial I wrote a couple of weeks ago about the OWS being the antithesis of the TEA party continues to prove itself out. Just my thoughts. John
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Damnitalready
Posts: 158
Incept: 2009-12-07
Texas
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I was surprised to see this: Quote:All that is happening is our fault; the People have allowed it to happen; I'm starting to like it.
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Genesis
Posts: 131488
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Yeah right Templar. That's why it appears there were about FORTY people in Oakland that were involved in that crap, and it appears the occupiers both outed them and went back and cleaned the graffiti off at least one of the bank branches that was spray-painted.
Wait a second.... they went back and cleaned off the graffiti?
Yep..... they did. Take off your blinders.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Swrichmond
Posts: 327
Incept: 2009-02-12
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You had me at ELHO: Quote:All People have Natural Rights -- Simply Because They Are Alive
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Architect
Posts: 830
Incept: 2007-07-11
london UK
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Watch out Karl . I remember that someone put the Bill of Rights to a random sample of Californians in the late sixties, asking them what it was. I think that significant majority ticked the box that said it was communist propaganda
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Mindrayge
Posts: 67
Incept: 2010-09-18
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The fires set by the protesters were set in the street AFTER the police fired tear gas - the smoke from the fire disburses and mitigates the effect of the tear gas. It was a defensive tactic.
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Mikeit83
Posts: 965
Incept: 2009-06-19
East Coast
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I can agree with the declaration- BUT
...it needs more. You have seen that there are some crazies in the crowd. Denounce those crazies by denouncing their philosophy. Do that, and I will put my shoes on and drive down there.
By those crazies.. I do mean the marxist and communist that ARE there.
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Davidcrue
Posts: 149
Incept: 2011-07-23
Texas
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Gen, i think you meant "defecating" on Adams' grave.
Templar, is this the same MSM assuring us that all is well, any bad news on the economy is totally unexpected, the teabaggers are only racists*****ed off that a black man was elected president and that our elected officials have everything well in hand and our best interests at hear2? One wonders how often one must see the official news media lie before one becomes suspicious as to their reliability. It may well be true; that it was in the news is no longer trustworthy, however. Show me video and let us hear from people on the ground, ones who have lied less than the media.
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Bagbalm
Posts: 4325
Incept: 2009-03-19
Just North of Detroit
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I watched a CBS helicopter video of the disruptive group in Oakland. I actually saw other demonstrators line up elbow to elbow in front of the doors of businesses and deny the trouble makers dressed in black entry. I'd add that it appeared to be at considerable risk to themselves. I'd love to get one of those fellows dressed in black aside and have a quiet intimate conversation with him about who sent him and how he is paid. I suspect they were trained professionals.
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J0nx
Posts: 3083
Incept: 2008-08-12
The trashcan of the nation
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They stole my sig! ;)
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The fraud and lies are only allowed to continue because the people allow it. Either through apathy or ignorance, they still allow it.
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Genesis
Posts: 131488
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Bag: Yep.
Those who run the tired bull**** line here at this point are going to be deemed PAID SHILLS who are trying to destroy constructive change and will be instantly and permanently removed from Tickerforum.
I'm done with tolerance on this point -- it is quite clear from last night that were that group intending to turn into a RIOTING MOB they would have done so. Instead the demonstrators put themselves into harm's way to DENY the small group that was there to attempt to incite exactly that outcome their opportunity.
There has been fair question on this point for a while. There no longer is.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Mikeit83
Posts: 965
Incept: 2009-06-19
East Coast
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When the crowd does turn truly violent- and it will... the excuse will be "the police were violent first."
The police will say they are using force because the protesters are using force. Its a self fulfilling prophecy.
Sounds like Israel and Palestine. well they did it first...
OWS needs to just sit there and eat the water cannons. No matter what, do not be violent.
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Scottj175
Posts: 8
Incept: 2010-09-06
Vandiver, AL
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Sorry, Karl, I am not as optimistic as you that any of this lot who view The Constitution as the shackle on government it's supposed to be will get their voices heard.
Everything I've seen before what you posted today has been more of a redistributionist bent.
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Grf
Posts: 1339
Incept: 2008-12-08
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"The Constitution is not a Menu;"
**** it, I'm on board. This means that they support the 2nd and don't throw it out like all the other leftists/liberals/Marxists.
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"Every time we on TF talk about God and gays, God frees a banker and gives him a bonus." --me "Your farts are interstate commerce and if they want to stick a muffler up your ass they will do it." --Boughtthefarm
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Ibbibby
Posts: 8
Incept: 2011-05-24
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There are some things coming out of some people in OWS that I can support, but there's way too much of this kind of crap... http://www.verumserum.com/?p=32119...for me to support the movement as a whole.
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Ibbibby
Posts: 8
Incept: 2011-05-24
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Or this: http://michellemalkin.com/2011/11/03/mor....I realize this isn't the whole movement, and that there is a struggle between these people and others in the movement who don't want this, but I have a really hard time trying to explain the scope of destruction and amount of signs pictured here in terms of a tiny group that got chased away by the "real" OWS.
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Starvingartist
Posts: 3430
Incept: 2011-01-03
Puff The Magic Dragon
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So the movement needs to have what percentage of slogans and signs that agree with your world view before you'll support it Ibbibby?
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"The only solution that is mathematically sound is politically impossible. All the should's in the world ain't gonna change that."
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Scottj175
Posts: 8
Incept: 2010-09-06
Vandiver, AL
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"This means that they support the 2nd "
Or perhaps they see it as a collective rather than individual right.
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Boughtthefarm
Posts: 385
Incept: 2009-12-06
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You're cherry picking Karl. Yes, some group added an occupy page to a constitutionalists website that was registered in 1999. To the movement as a whole that means very little.
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Tsberts
Posts: 2362
Incept: 2008-02-05
Minnesota
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Quote:they went back and cleaned off the graffiti? Can you cite that Karl? I can't find it, and would like to send a reference to that off to some folks.
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Photoguy was an optimist. In Soviet Russia, the banks are run by the politicians. The cancer within the federal government has metastasized, it's now up to each of the states to contain the cancer.
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Miljardo32
Posts: 98
Incept: 2008-11-05
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I protested at the original Tax Day Tea Parties in my hometown of OKC, OK. Before going, I was absolutely stoked at the idea of a group of people who were like-minded to me. ( Stop Fraud of any form, denying those who will spend my money without my vote... i.e. bailout, stop political/financial cronyism ) I had recently returned from a 20 month deployment as an intelligence analyst in OIF and had seen incredible waste and frustratingly little progress in our "core mission". I came to the rally expecting intelligent people furthering an agenda that was just and fair, in line with American principles. What I found when I arrived could have been confused with the OK republican convention sans the tuxedos and ties. Every speaker talked about Nancy Pelosi at least three quarters of their speech with lots of "cheering opportunities" thrown in. I left incredibly disheartened, ( not before getting hassled by the OHP ) disappointed, and disgusted with the state of the populace and our lack of recognition of true/deep corruption. ( Truly irony at its best that the organization founded on fighting corruption was itself corrupted! ) Had the speakers and organizers made clear who was at fault, what was going on, and framed it in language that the attendees could have grasped, I truly believe that the national conversation that is just beginning would be in full swing and we might be a little closer to something that resembles economic/social justice.
While I admit that my experience was highly anecdotal, from everything that I have read in the blogosphere/MSM/TickerForum it became clear that my experience was not an aberration. So, several years later when OWS began making its way into the blogs that I read (NakedCap,MarkTick,Mish,ZeroHedge,TheOilDrum I rolled my eyes and thought that it was the same type of movement that starts pure and then is corrupted by the interests that it protests... So far, from what I have read, it has not. Yet. I want to attend, but the nature of work could not allow me to get arrested in this setting should I want to remain gainfully employed. I have been and continue to be impressed by the foresight, cohesion, and persistence of message that the Occupy movement has taken on. I know that I am not alone in the world in knowing that the status quo is dying or already dead. I speak to everyone I know about the problems in our country hoping to the plant the seed of truth that it will lead one to learn more on one's own. Conversion to true understanding and conviction to said truth cannot be forced, it must mature on its own. I just hope that the Occupy movement is able to maintain their stance of non-violence and that the protests are not co-opted by anyone. I may come to NYC at least for a weekend during the winter to make sure that the numbers do not dwindle during the bad weather.
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Mikeit83
Posts: 965
Incept: 2009-06-19
East Coast
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Ibbibby- you are just making all that **** up. None of that exists. I mean- you can go to a florida or tennessee occupy event and see none of its there!
Oakland=tennesee=florida=NYC... there fixed it for ya.
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Pookie
Posts: 265
Incept: 2009-06-18
Florida
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DIVIDED WE FALL...STOP LISTENING TO THE PROPAGANDA MACHINE. Quote:full story here: http://www.record-bee.com/ci_19252444
OWS: Conservatives who don't know it?By Deb Bauman Updated: 11/02/2011 09:01:30 PM PDT
OWS: Conservatives who don't know it?
A funny thing happened when staffers from the famous conservative think tank, the American Enterprise Institute, visited Occupy Wall Street to see it with their own eyes.
The AEI staff approached their tour of Zuccotti Park with certain negative preconceptions, so they were very surprised to find the OWS protestors as articulate and well-informed as they are passionate.
Everywhere the AEI staffers looked, they saw evidence of free-market fundamentalism. They were impressed by the OWS camp's order.
They were impressed by its water filtration system. They were impressed by the can-do spirit and abundance of entrepreneurship.
The AEI's conclusion? The OWS protestors are actually "conservatives, they just don't know it."
I'd like to suggest a different conclusion: Perhaps the AEI should re-examine its own preconceptions of liberal.
For the past 50 years, a fierce war of indoctrination has been waged in this country, with corporate media forces in print, TV and radio focused on a single aim: to divide the American people and to keep them divided.
Because, divided we fall.
Divided, we are helpless to resist the one percent's relentless hijacking of our government and our economy.
People like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity are richly paid because of their talent for dividing the American people, for their skill at pushing the buttons that makes certain segments of the 99 percent hate other segments of the 99 percent. Fox "News" is a propaganda machine devoted to dividing the people, and keeping them divided.
Occupy Wall Street is striking a chord because it is uniting people across the political spectrum. The prospect of such unity is the worst nightmare for corporate USA and its subsidiary, the U.S. Congress.
OWS has reinvigorated the "Move Your Money" movement, with people across the USA closing their big bank accounts and moving their deposits to local banks and credit unions. There is a nationwide Occupy Bailed Out Banks day on Saturday.
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Once you admit that the individual is merely a means to serve the ends of the higher entity called society or the nation, most of those features of totalitarian regimes which horrify us follow of necessity. --F.A. Hayek
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Ibbibby
Posts: 8
Incept: 2011-05-24
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Starvingartist, that's a weird question. What percentage of anarchist/socialist/communist/anti-capitalist signs would there have to be before you wouldn't?
My point is, from what I can glean, there just appears to be too large a destructive, anti-civilization streak running through this movement for me to write it all off as an insignificant minority, or to say that I support OWS without reservation. Even the daytime strike was aimed not just at striking (which is every citizen's right), but at forcibly cutting off access to the Oakland port.
Obviously, I agree with whoever in OWS agrees with me, but there's no way for me to know how much of the movement that represents. I need to have some clear indication that a movement *mostly* agrees with me in *most* of its beliefs before I can say I support it. Otherwise, what does it even mean to say I support it?
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