Debt "Deal"? The Fundamental Mathematics Of Failure
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2011-06-28 10:18
by Karl Denninger
in Editorial
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Debt "Deal"? The Fundamental Mathematics Of Failure
 

So crows Bloomberg this morning:

President Barack Obama and Republicans are narrowing the debate on a deficit-cutting plan to a reduction of $1 trillion to $2 trillion, though whether that would settle the issue through the 2012 presidential election remains in doubt, according to budget and debt experts.

White House press secretary Jay Carney insisted yesterday that a “significant” deal is still possible, even as Republicans and Democrats show little signs of compromise on entitlements and taxes, and Republicans remain firm in their demand for spending cuts in excess of the debt-limit increase.

The problem, at its core, is this:

Which has produced this:

Now let's take just one second and look at what all this means.  Take Excel, open it, and enter the following:

First column, 14, second 53, third (=B1*.04) and fourth (=C1/A1).  Set the last column to display a percentage.

The first column is GDP (trillions), the second (total systemic) debt in trillions.  Both are factual figures from the Fed's Z1 and the BEA's GDP series. The third is a guessed blended interest rate on that debt (rather conservative and probably too low by at least a percent or two) and the forth is the percentage of GDP that must be spent on debt service.

Now multiply the the first column in the second row by 4% (1.04), the second by 7.42% (debt increase percentage, 1.0742), and carry the third and fourth down.  The first is a "forward guess" on GDP and is probably too optimistic.  The latter is not a guess - it is the actual compounded debt increase since 1990 forward (if we go from 1953 forward it's 8.57%, which is even worse!)

Then copy and extend that table down 100 years.

The first few rows look like this:

GDP Debt Interest % Of GDP
14 53 2.12 15.14%
14.56 56.9326 2.277304 15.64%
15.1424 61.157 2.44628 16.16%
15.7481 65.69485 2.627794 16.69%
16.37802 70.56941 2.822776 17.24%
17.03314 75.80566 3.032226 17.80%
17.71447 81.43044 3.257217 18.39%
18.42304 87.47257 3.498903 18.99%
19.15997 93.96304 3.758522 19.62%

Notice that the percentage of debt service (in terms of GDP) increases every single year.

Now I want you to take the 100 years of data and insert a graph on the first three columns.

It looks like this:

The absurdity of believing that the United States can have $60,000 trillion (that's 60 quadrillion) of debt outstanding in 100 years is, well, beyond stupid.  That's more than one thousand times as much debt as is outstanding right now.

But the real "you're screwed" is in the two bottom curves and is hard to see.  Let's remove the debt number and make it easier, reducing it to just the first 60 years (you know, by 2070?)

Uh, yeah.  Or, if you prefer:

By the way, it's not possible to pay more than 100% of GDP in debt service, since there is only 100% to pay with.  Further, you can't pay 100%, since there are other things you need to buy, like for instance food, fuel, housing, etc.

If you don't believe this is inevitable so long as deficits continue to be present in the economy, irrespective of the interest rate, go ahead and play with the spreadsheet.  Set the interest rate to any positive number and choose a GDP growth rate of your choice.  So long as the total systemic debt growth rate is larger than the GDP growth rate this outcome will always occur, with the only question being "how long before it does?" 

The same, incidentally, is true so long as the government's debt growth rate exceeds that of GDP - any government that maintains such a policy will eventually blow up.

This is the fundamental characteristic of exponents - any two compound (exponential) functions where one is larger than the other will always run away from one another.  If one must service (at some percentage over zero) the larger function with the smaller bankruptcy is inevitable if you maintain the compounding of the debt (the larger.)

Since nobody ever intentionally loans out capital at a loss debt will always grow faster than GDP in a free market economy during economic expansion.  The practice of increasing government deficits to "mitigate" recession is simply an attempt to prevent the fundamental mathematics from asserting themselves and blowing up those who lent out too much money to people who can't pay from going under.  That process, called "creative destruction", detonates both the imprudent borrowers and the lenders who lent them the money. 

That process is necessary in order to clear the economy of excessive debt and halt the compounding of economic damage!

It is not mathematically possible to prevent the contraction that must come; one can only defer the damage, and that deferral must mathematically result in further compounding of the ultimate pain that must be accepted and worked through the economy!

You cannot change fundamental mathematical FACTS.

Today our government is borrowing and spending about 12% of GDP.  If the government stops doing that then GDP must contract by (at least) that same 12%.  If the government raises taxes instead then the same contraction occurs since the tax revenues must come out of your pocket, and you can't spend money that is taxed away.

GDP is defined as "GDP = C + I + G + (x - i)", where "C" is consumption, "I" is net investment, "G" is government spending, "x" is exports and "i" is imports.  Again, arithmetic - not complex mathematics, arithmetic.  Reduce either "G" (government spending) or some combination of "C" and "I" (increase taxes) and GDP contracts by the same amount.  Period.

It really is this simple folks.  We have played this game for thirty years and in fact have not had a single positive quarter where GDP has increased greater than total systemic debt since 1980.

(Rate of GDP increase compared to debt increase; numbers over "0" are positive economic growth adjusted for total systemic debt, under "0" are internal economic deterioration as debt is increasing faster than output.)

All the last three years (and the deficits from 2001-2007, incidentally) have done is attempt to paper over the rot that both Democrat and Republican have foisted off on the economy in every single quarter since 1980.  Most of Congress and their staff appear to be ignorant of these fundamental facts of arithmetic - not out of stupidity, but simply because they don't understand it and nobody has ever explained it and challenged them to go verify these basic mathematical relationships for themselves.

Ben Bernanke, Jamie Dimon and the rest of the banksters certainly do understand these fundamental facts, and the former, at least, has an absolute duty to bring this up in public with Congress. It is very apparent that he has failed to do so, and that the entire banking industry is using Congressional (and Presidential) ignorance of these facts to pilfer the Public Treasury - and the private economy.

Nonetheless it is impossible for this strategy to succeed for the broader economy.  All this strategy can do is allow more plunder of the economy - for a little while - by the banksters.

We must stop this madness, right here and now, despite the fact that doing so will cause great and immediate economic pain.  That means no more government debt and it means accepting both the bankruptcy of those lenders and borrowers who are over-levered and the corresponding economic contraction that must, mathematically, come with this adjustment.

There is no alternative; the longer this charade continues the worse the compounded damage.

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User Info Debt "Deal"? The Fundamental Mathematics Of Failure in forum [Market-Ticker]
Corn1945
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The $1-2 trillion dollars is one of those "over ten years" scams right?

That doesn't even come close to fixing the problem.
Lordhumongous
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FSA disagrees. FSA is anyone that relies on tax dollars for their income: welfare, SS, medicare, medicaid, gubmint workers and retirees, goverment contractors, etc. Millions of people, very diverse in all respects except one: they believe they have the right to live by stealing from the productive.

1. "Somebody owns something I want to steal" (income, savings, 401k, what have you .... pun intended)
2. "I am going to steal it one way or the other" (flash mob, riot, or election day flash mob at the polls)

They don't give a ****. They have a perceived need, you are the means to their free **** bennies. End of story, maybe the end of your life.

Mortgageguymn
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What crappy reporting by Bloomberg. $1-2 tril over what time frame? I assume 10 years. It's like if you can do math, you're not allowed to be a reporter. No matter what the details are, we're beyond ****ed. And people have no idea. And those people get to vote. We need numeracy tests to vote.

I posted this yesterday, but it's Stockman berating fool Jonathan Alter when the latter claims Obama/Bernanke saved us from Great Depression II: http://investmentwatchblog.com/david-sto....

Uwe
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Although I absolutely agree with this analysis in the whole, I suspect that one of the reasons it doesn't sink in on the politicians is that we have roughly roughly 5000 times as much public debt now as we did on hundred years ago, and yet somehow, the gears are still turning.

-Uwe-




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“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” - John Locke
Xanares
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Don't worry all is well.
Inline
Mangoelvis
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Math is racist.

Look, we've said for a long time here that the only solution that is mathematically sound is politically impossible. It simply won't happen. Any politician running for office using real math won't get elected. And even if we manage to get one or two in, there is no way we'll ever reach a majority in time to matter.

The most difficult prediction is what this thing looks like and when it will blow. Anyone arguing about whether or not it's gonna blow simply isn't paying attention.

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Corn1945
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Agreed Mangoelvis. Too many people rely on the system staying the way it is so they will resist any change.

Spending time trying to alter course is a waste.
Riceday
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So our debt service cost today (15% of GDP) on total systemic debt already exceeds the entire federal budget (12%), right?

Reason: clarity
Themortgagedude
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Wouldn't we be better off raising the retirement age to 70, adjusting Medicare to where it is self sustaining. Raising Medicare taxes and reducing services. And then just one time printing to pay off the debt. And at the same time allowing no further debt. Wouldn't that be as equitable a solution as anything right now? Just throw our hands up, say we screwed up, basically go bankrupt and start over with a new set of rules???

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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
Genesis
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Well, maybe.

That's the Kucinich Plan (less the socialist stuff going forward), basically. Print-to-redeem. The problem is that he leaves the door open for more ponzi via government-sponsored borrowing. That can't be allowed.

But other than that, this is basically Kucinich's bill.

It has some good points to recommend it but the problem is enforcement. If you move monetary policy to Congress or Treasury you need to find a way to imprison people who violate it. The Federal Reserve Act actually contains a hard stricture against price increases, but they've intentionally ignored it and nobody has come after them in response.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Arw
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humungous, yes, everyone should, at some point in their life, sit down and talk to someone who believes they're entitled to your money. They believe it not because they've done something to earn it or that you've done anything to lose it. You owe it to them because you have it and they don't. That's it. It is extremely frustrating conversation.
Rdgdawg
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WI... but no brats or cheese...
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Ok, so simplify it for me and/or anyone else who's trying to compute ALL of the factors in this mess cuz it's now become just like the technology I sell... every guy in the room adds complexity just by himself...

so... KISS...

What is the simpliest way, REGARDLESS OF ANY PAIN, to right this ship... everything is on the table, it affects YOU, then TOUGH... WHAT DO WE DO????

Give me a plan, I'm pounding my CONgressmen, local reps, leaders, family... anyone and everyone, regardless if they listen or not... they're gonna hear it!!!!!!!!!! :):):)

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I work hard because millions on welfare depend on me!

Twainfan
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Minnesota
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Rdgdawg, I'm not expert by any means.. but I'd say we must immediately end all deficit spending.. and start running surpluses to pay down the debt.
Genesis
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1. No more federal debt. Period. Whatever this means for budgets it does. Figure out how you want to balance the budget, but do it now and run a primary surplus of at least 3% of GDP and continue doing so every year until the debt is retired.

2. No more backstops for financial institutions. Period.

3. All instruments marked to market nightly. Period.

4. All derivatives trade on an exchange with cash margin posted and double-blinded trading. If you can't do that for whatever reason, they're declared void and torn up. Period.

5. "One dollar of capital." See the Tickers for this.

6. A 20 year prison penalty is put into the Federal Reserve Act for any violation of "stable prices" over the intermediate term. Prices may decline but the "desired range" is set at +0, -0.5% annually (to account for productivity increases.) If prices rise over 0% on a five-year rolling basis the entire FOMC is replaced and the voting members go to jail.

That's the necessary stuff. Now on to "what we should do."

1. No tax deductions for debt of any sort. Mortgage, corporate, whatever. Sorry, no incentive to do that in the tax code.

2. Reform of the tax system so that capital investment is not taxable. The easiest way is The Fair Tax, but I'm not particularly married to that approach - it's just the cleanest way to get to it.

3. Fix the entire medical system (see the "Health Reform" topic here on the Ticker for some ideas); you have to as Medicate cannot work as structured today.

4. Wage and environmental parity tariffs for "developing" nations.

There's more, but that would be a good start.

Incidentally the short-term economic correction will be somewhere between 20-40% and the existing large banks probably all blow up (possible exception: JP Morgan.) If you put The Fair Tax in once that's complete you'll also attract businesses from all over the world, which will help mitigate the damage once the adjustment has been taken.

It will suck if we do this, but it will suck once and then be over. If we don't cut this **** out we're going to hit the wall HARD and wind up like Greece - or worse.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?

Icanhasbailout
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Simplest way =

1) default out ALL the bad debt, making the lenders eat their own mistakes, clearing any insolvent companies out of the system
2) prosecute everyone involved in the fraud, mercilessly


Doesn't solve ALL our problems but sure as hell would right the ship in a big way.

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Riceday
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Quote:
What is the simpliest way, REGARDLESS OF ANY PAIN, to right this ship...

Default all foreign held debt + all Federal Reserve held debt
Cut Federal Government budget in at least half (defense only?), turn the entitlement problem over to the states (good luck to the states - let them sort it out on their own)

But then again, there are plenty of genius ideas to fix the economic problems we have. The real problem lies in fixing the moral and ethical crisis we have that is preventing us from addressing the economic problems.
Themortgagedude
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Twain - I think that's one way. But too painful to sell.

Rdawg - first thing I would pound them on is that they either need to make Medicare a lasting solution to our seniors medical needs or they need to abandon it. Medicare is the 800 lb gorilla that everyone is ignoring. If we can figure it out I think the rest of the stuff we can handle. And how do you make it financially solvent. You have to raise the age for eligibility a couple of years and limit the services available. Probably also requires an increase in Medicare taxes. Those seniors who want hip replacements and shoulder replacements will have to buck up for supplemental insurance that will pay for it. The Free **** Delivery Truck is out of gas down the road a ways.

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Mpilar
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Quote:
Look, we've said for a long time here that the only solution that is mathematically sound is politically impossible. It simply won't happen. Any politician running for office using real math won't get elected. And even if we manage to get one or two in, there is no way we'll ever reach a majority in time to matter.

Exactly...between 25-35% of Americans are actual tax payers (and this does NOT take into account gov contracts to private business making them tax consumers as well!), in this case, the math doesn't lie either...the only way to fix this is going to be quite violent because the FSA is not going to accept what MUST happen for this country to have a future.

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Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken
Widgeon
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The traditional policy response to such mathematics has always been printing.

Just Saying.
Genesis
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Which doesn't actually "respond" to anything Widg. That's the point; "printing" is what caused this in the first place.

(What do you call unbacked credit emission? It's the same as monetary emission in terms of impact on the economy, and has the same hangover.)

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Fraudster
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Quote:
If prices rise over 0% on a five-year rolling basis the entire FOMC is replaced and the voting members go to jail.


Very harsh but I wholeheartedly agree with this. BTW I suspect that back out all of the excess debt going back to the 80s may result in a decline of 40-50%. Rough stuff.

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"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." - Napoleon Bonaparte

"Circulation ceases first at the outer edges [Europe and Japan]. It will take a while yet for the decay to reach the heart [America]." - Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov
Matt_bear
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if we were a business, we would be well beyond the point where the doors were closed and the building/supplies were liquidated.

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In terms of real-world fundamentals, I expect that most of the people around me, whom I work with day to day, and whom I pass on the street ... will be dead within five years.
Captbill
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It's even more interesting (read: Disgusting), re; this FSA when you have a good friend, who is very anti-FSA that discloses he doesn't want his wife taking a secretary job at the church because it would threaten her SS disability (which she got because she was a raving alcoholic) and then I get Wide-Eyed Deer-in-the-headlights WHAAAT???

And then he says they paid into it so long they're entitled...And I respond that the rest of the FSA isn't???

He turned around and walked away. Now I think I loath hypocrites worse than the FSA.

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Incredible. There's Smith and he's standing there and he's got the iceberg warning in his ****ing hand, excuse me, his hand, and he's ordering more speed. Lewis Bodine, RMS Titanic
Icanhasbailout
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Imaginationland
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Wait, you can get free money for drinking beer?

Where the hell has this been all my life??

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