I hope and pray they drop it.. It is total madness and since the politicians won't stop it, let's hope the bond market does.

anyone know what time the vote is today...

QUESTION
Is the 5 yr better barometer of interest rate move than 10 or 30?
Because treasury moving all auction based on short term which equates close to 5 yr maturity.

Note: from the looks of it and where we are based on time of the yr, market won't care til we hit %4 on 10 yr, just what I think.
At this rate we may get there befor dec 30th

Someone explain to me why the bond market finally throws a hissy fit over some paltry 'tax cuts' but has snoozed through bailouts of banks and lenders of stratuspheric proportions - including the one that happened this past Wednesday with little fanfare...the Treasury paying off AIG's debt.



Apparently bond investors only care when spending favors taxpayers but not banks.

Where's that exit door? Let's get this **** over with!

I continue to hope and, to some extent, pray this "deal" - which gets ever more craptacular every moment the crapweasels have their hands on it - is dropped.

Ag seems to be saying the deal will get done ... AND EXPANDED!

Up 91 Cents.

Pika-steph wrote..

Apparently bond investors only care when spending favors taxpayers but not banks.

You can probably change that to "Evidently" as it's pretty obvious Bondzilla sure likes her some meaty Gubermint Cheese.

@Docj, indeed, it seems everyone thinks that they are entitled to a free lunch. And we are so used to thinking that printing more money is the solution to all problems, that we fail to look in any other directions for solutions. Laziness? Insanity? Absurdity? All I know is the brick wall is there and we are speeding towards it at ever increasing speeds and all brakes have failed.

I hope it passes. I hope they add more spending to it. I'm tired of watching this slow motion train wreck. It's time to speed things up. We’re screwed!

Interesting way of putting it IOU.. We know we are screwed, therefore let's speed it up and get it over with.... I am sympathetic.

Do I remember Carville ?????? Hated that snake looking asshat for years. Great quote by Carville you dug up KD. ( He is one hell of a political strategist though )

Bhakta wrote..

Laziness? Insanity? Absurdity?

Personally, I chalk it up to 3-generations of dumbed-down public education. We're programmed from practically birth now that "everyone deserves a trophy". The gateway drugs for government dependence are administered starting at age 5 (earlier, in some cases) and many live in a state of perpetual adolescence (whereby we want "freedom" but also are constantly whining to "Mom and Dad" for more sugar) until someone or something beats it out of them.

Took the US Army (Basic Training at Ft. Bragg, NC in 1988, more specifically) to beat it out of me. That was some hard, hard learning, me bucko. But well worth it.

Curious how bondzilla never stirs when TARP or QE2 are in full swing but now that tax cut extensions are on the line he is stirring around and getting all cranky. Curious how that works...

As I said before, I will take no pain on an individual level unless or until banksters and corrupt politicians are indicted on RICO charges and thrown into a cell with Rastus P. Jackson to be made his buttbitch. I would prefer like Iou to just keep getting my tax cuts and hope for the whole thing to crumble to the ground ASAP until that happens.

Silly rabbit, government spending is for banks.

Pika who do you think was supporting the bond market? That's why bondzilla didn't throw a fit over banker bailout. Just like everything else Bondzilla is owned by the banks.

If bondzilla existed then rates wouldn't be at ridiculous historical lows. Or would they? It's really that simple isn't it?

Quote:

I hope it passes. I hope they add more spending to it. I'm tired of watching this slow motion train wreck. It's time to speed things up.

I'm in this camp. Spend it all now in a blaze of "glory" and let's get the show on the road. The sooner we crash the sooner we can rebuild this bitch.

FIRST LOOK - Acting Assistant Treasury Secretary for Economy Policy John Bellows writes in a blog post going live later this morning: "As Congress prepares to take votes on the [tax cut] agreement, it's worth asking: where does the crux of that boost come from? ... [T]he initiatives ... favored by the Administration will provide at least five times more stimulus to the economy than the proposed tax cuts for high income households. ... [E]xtended unemployment benefits, a payroll tax holiday and extensions of refundable tax credits - will put roughly twice as much money in the pockets of American families as the proposed tax cuts for high-income households."

i had forgotten that carville line. i always liked his sense of humor. i remember another line from bubba during that same period. after some key announcement or committee vote or something on the hillarycare health reform of that era, bondzilla voted thumbs down. when bubba was briefed on this, he responded, ''so, let me get this straight. i can't pass health care reform because a few guys in new york raised interest rates'.

i hope in their little meeting last week bubba passed this lesson on to barry o, that this poll matters a bit more than the gallup polls.

The 'tax deal' maybe a POS but they'll pass it. They aren't going to worry about a few basis points when, if don't extend the capital gain and dividend rates, they crash the stock market.

I still would not put it passed this COngress and the President to keep everyone believing that the tax extensions are coming...but never getting around to passing them. In it....Ben gets "NO SELL OFF IN THE EQUITY MARKET BY KEEPING EVERYONE BELIEVING IN THE EXTENSIONS, AND THE DEMS GET TO PLEASE THEIR BASE". Everyone would win, well exceot for middle America, but who really cares about them??

QE2 is a bluff

"By increasing the number of U.S. dollars in circulation, or even by credibly threatening to do so"- Ben S Bernanke 2002

Did anyone see the story on ZH about how Bernanke successfully offset the Deflationary Collapse of Shadow Banking?

QE2 is already over. No "printing" is going on at all. These commodity ramps are temporary. There is no "new normal" about the recent moves at all.

Time's Man of the Year 2.0?

The bond market is too big to rig. If they couldn't control it at half the present size, what makes anyone think they can do it now? Bernanke lends money over night. He can flood the market and keep the rate where he wants is for the short term. I doubt he can keep money near zero if the economy and lending get going. The longer end has to reflect inflation, risk and a real rate of interest. This is elementary financial theory, something you can't learn in the garbage can Bernanke's theories were developed (get in, pound on lid and noise produces theory). The capital market has to have a return and the trillions that Bernanke isn't buying along with the customers that are buying determine that market. For years I have marveled at the bull**** that comes out of the press on the Fed and mortgage rates, one an overnight rate and the other linked closer to a 10 year rate. 2000-2001 the market led the Fed. It did the same in 2007-2008. The guy is at best lowering a wrecking ball on a crane. It is the ball that is going to the ground as the crane is only letting out line.

Bernanke is either an idiot or a liar and an abetter of thieves. Listen to Tavakoli on that post last night. She seems to understand QE is all about letting the banks operate while bankrupt. This is all about giving the banks more funds to write hot checks. This fraud is going to show up somewhere eventually.

We don't know what the increase is, but in a way Bernanke is running a de facto default of the banks and the government. This is what institutionalizing inflation is and the default risk shows up either as an inflation premium or a risk premium. I posted a piece out of a 2001 Doug Noland piece last night on the Tavakoli post. Franklin Raines was talking of average originations in the mortgage business in the 2000 decade of $1.6 trillion and expanding mortgage credit from $5 trillion to $14 trillion. That dance stopped and Bernanke is merely picking up the tune.