Here It Comes: Title Insurance Problems in [Market-Ticker]

Posted 2010-09-30 07:49
by Karl Denninger
in Housing

Here It Comes: Title Insurance Problems

Now we got trouble.

I am in receipt of a copy of a bulletin from Old Republic Title in which it states:

The Company will not insure title to any property which has been foreclosed by Ally Financial, Ally Bank or GMAC until further notice.

Oops.

I suspect this is going to spread fast, given that this "wee problem" is NOT specific to GMAC and Ally. In fact, JP Morgan/Chase has reported "similar discrepancies", and then today we had my report on a ruling from a court in which a counterfeit summons was issued not by the court, but by a law firm.

There isn't going to be any clean way to fix this folks. These bad affidavits and other forms of fraud upon the courts render these judgments voidable. Title companies are potentially on the hook if they write a policy on such a home and the title turns out be not just clouded but unmarketable as there's a valid claim that someone else holds!

This crap has to be cleaned up and the firms and individuals involved must face SEVERE sanction for these acts. If in point of fact, as I have suspected, there is no actual conveyance into the MBS trusts that ever took place (and as I noted, this too has been documented in at least some cases) then we have a ****storm of biblical proportions.

The institutions involved in this cannot be allowed to paper over it or "get away with it." Private property ownership is the foundation of this nation. If these banks and their agents have in fact done what it appears they have done, these institutions and firms must be dissolved and their principals prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for each and every forged, counterfeit or fraudulent document, and the titles must be unwound, with funds returned to the sellers up the line, until a clear and clean status is regained.

Discussion below (registration required to post)

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User Info	Here It Comes: Title Insurance Problems in forum [Market-Ticker]
Gillianx Posts: 65 Incept: 2010-01-07	Good luck with that. The US went over to the dark side long ago and the populace seem pretty happy sitting around and watching tv. 2010-09-30 08:06:45 Permalink
Docj Posts: 998 Incept: 2009-09-10 Duck & Cover	Admiral Josh Painter wrote.. This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it. ---------- The preservation of liberty depends upon the intellectual and moral character of the people. As long as knowledge and virtue are diffused generally among the body of a nation it is impossible they should be enslaved. - John Adams 2010-09-30 08:08:35 Permalink
Bigsapper Posts: 2471 Incept: 2010-06-25	(tinfoil) .gov taking over all residential properties until it can get this all sorted out, in 3, 2, 1 ... Last modified: 2010-09-30 08:14:21 by bigsapper 2010-09-30 08:11:31 Permalink
Zarathustra Posts: 5937 Incept: 2009-04-29 Funkytown	My thoughts? ---------- "And in knowing that you know nothing, that makes you the smartest of all." - Socrates 2010-09-30 08:13:46 Permalink
Salt Posts: 191 Incept: 2010-05-28 NC	"... until a clear and clean status is regained." Last night, while driving past a local finance company, I could swear I saw a pig fly. 2010-09-30 08:25:44 Permalink
Buckmulligan Posts: 130 Incept: 2008-03-12 New London CT Banned	"The institutions involved in this cannot be allowed to paper over it or "get away with it." I'm sure the Republicans and Tea Party winners will be all over this. Right. 2010-09-30 08:28:39 Permalink
Jwm_in_sb Posts: 1035 Incept: 2009-04-16 California Desert	""The institutions involved in this cannot be allowed to paper over it or "get away with it." I'm sure the Republicans and Tea Party winners will be all over this. Right." One of the candidates needs to take this and turn it into a political issue. 2010-09-30 08:36:15 Permalink
Infidel Posts: 5463 Incept: 2007-08-27 between here and there	Just yesterday a realtor friend called literally bawling on the phone, seems a forclosed home we were paid to do work on by the new buyer was found to have a 28,000 judgement on it. BOA knew of this months ago by their (BOA) title company but failed to disclose it the the new buyer. The work we did had to be done to do the home inspection and it was a cost BOA would not bear so they told the buyer if they wanted an inspection they had to pay for the work so the buyer did. We were thinking of picking up some income property but not in this environment. ---------- "DON'T BELIEVE THEM, DON'T FEAR THEM, DON'T ASK ANYTHING OF THEM." -ALEXANDER SOLZHENITSYN. 2010-09-30 08:38:31 Permalink
Docj Posts: 998 Incept: 2009-09-10 Duck & Cover	Quote: I'm sure the Republicans and Tea Party winners will be all over this. Well, that's not at all likely of course (certainly not from the "Republicans", though the Tea Party winners might be crazy enough to do it) - but if there's any chance for a political solution to this then we'd better hope they actually do. Right? We've already seen the Barry, Nancy and Harry ain't interested. At all. Keep in mind, I'd put "successful political solution to this nightmare" just below "pigs sprouting wings and flying away from their pens" on the likely-to-happen scale. But that ought not stop us from turning-over the membership of Congress every 2-years until they "get it" in the interim, methinks. ---------- The preservation of liberty depends upon the intellectual and moral character of the people. As long as knowledge and virtue are diffused generally among the body of a nation it is impossible they should be enslaved. - John Adams 2010-09-30 08:38:55 Permalink
Xnavnuke Posts: 101 Incept: 2009-05-07 Hampton Roads, VA	Could this be one of those proverbial 'black swan' events? 2010-09-30 08:39:19 Permalink
Curbyourrisk Posts: 3587 Incept: 2008-08-19 Farmingdale, NY	Karl...I still believe there is a very simple solution....one that will be proposed by the banks and gladly taken by the idiots of congress. They will simply change the rule. (the rule of law....that is just a joke to these people) We will not see anyone go to jail over this. Just like other occassions with this administration.....Never let a good crisis go to waste. They will find away to absolve all those who carried out the offenses and find a way to take from the American people while they are at it. ---------- Time is up. I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no Santa Claus, the tooth fairy does not exist and American justice does not involve the courts. Last modified: 2010-09-30 08:56:02 by curbyourrisk 2010-09-30 08:53:39 Permalink
Captainkidd Posts: 594 Incept: 2010-05-25 Pasadena, Texas	Quote: They will simply change the rule. (the rule of law....that is just a joke to these people) Unfortunately, I believe that you are right. If not, why are there not indictments already forthcoming for the mess that has unraveled in Florida with the forged subpoena and afadavits? These are, beyond doubt, crimes, yet there have been no indictments for them, yet. The law will be changed, re-interpreted, or flat ignored. But in any of these the results are the same. The Banks Win. ---------- A lawyer with a briefcase can steal more than a thousand men with guns. --Mario Puzo It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. -- Henry Ford 2010-09-30 09:02:31 Permalink
Themortgagedude Posts: 8841 Incept: 2007-12-17 saint louis	If you can't get title insurance then you can't sell the properties. Look for the banks to partner up in the title insurance biz so that their is someone willing to write title insurance on the properties. Not that this is a good deal for consumers, its kind of like paying protection $$$ to the mob. My answer to how to solve the problems anymore is just think like a criminal and expect that's how they'll handle it. ---------- I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth. 2010-09-30 09:06:27 Permalink
Widgeon Posts: 13481 Incept: 2007-08-30 Region formerly known as the United States	SNARK ON ... Well, if the banks own all the "private property" that still respects private property rights. Right? 2010-09-30 09:06:34 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130663 Incept: 2007-06-26	Yeah, and those bank-owned title companies are excluding these risks from owners policies. ---------- I don't care* if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* 2010-09-30 09:07:33 Permalink
Smacktle Posts: 1358 Incept: 2009-01-20 Texas	I'm holding my breath... ---------- The faults of the burglar are the qualities of the financier. - George Bernard Shaw 2010-09-30 09:08:45 Permalink
Jtmo3 Posts: 679 Incept: 2009-07-31 Missouri	"must face SEVERE sanction for these acts." Good luck with that one. 2010-09-30 09:11:24 Permalink
Jwm_in_sb Posts: 1035 Incept: 2009-04-16 California Desert	"Yeah, and those bank-owned title companies are excluding these risks from owners policies." So then what the hell is the purchase and loan for if you don't actually own the property risk free??? Holy **....anybody looking to buy a house now...*ing forget it. You may not actually own in the end. Am I over-reaching here with this conclusion?? 2010-09-30 09:12:17 Permalink*
Unknownsailor Posts: 140 Incept: 2009-04-06 Haze Grey and Underway Via Bremerton, WA	That would be my question, how a prospective home buyer could make sure that the title is not clouded. 2010-09-30 09:13:14 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130663 Incept: 2007-06-26	Quote: So then what the hell is the purchase and loan for if you don't actually own the property risk free??? Holy **....anybody looking to buy a house now...*ing forget it. You may not actually own in the end. Am I over-reaching here with this conclusion?? No, you are not over-reaching. ---------- I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* 2010-09-30 09:14:09 Permalink
Themortgagedude Posts: 8841 Incept: 2007-12-17 saint louis	Not over-reaching at all. That's right. While I could expect the banks to do as I say and write the insurance themselves - I wouldn't think they would try to exclude claims against them. I'd more likely think they wouldn't honor the claims later by going belly up, but rather run to Uncle Sugar to handle them for them. ---------- I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth. 2010-09-30 09:20:35 Permalink
Widgeon Posts: 13481 Incept: 2007-08-30 Region formerly known as the United States	MORE SNARK; Hey, as long as you are making your easy monthly payment it's all good. 2010-09-30 09:20:55 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130663 Incept: 2007-06-26	No, TMD, look at Wells. They're excluding it from the title in their "special addendum" and so is their captive title insurer. You can literally buy an empty box purchasing a home that went through a Wells foreclosure. ---------- I don't care* if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* Last modified: 2010-09-30 09:22:09 by genesis 2010-09-30 09:21:47 Permalink
Jwm_in_sb Posts: 1035 Incept: 2009-04-16 California Desert	"No, you are not over-reaching." Then there is no way that this doesn't get out of the bag so to speak. Even attempts by the judiciary and the MSM to ignore this won't stop J6P from eventually figuring even through word of mouth that there are big problems. 2010-09-30 09:22:29 Permalink

Admiral Josh Painter wrote..

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