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| Banksters Fight Back: Deficiency Judgments in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8841
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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Take this word of advice from a banker. Don't trust a banker. Except me of course. 
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Canadaman
Posts: 1471
Incept: 2007-08-10
Cleveland, OH
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wow banksters formally informing people they are the banksters slave........that is not going to help out the banksters image
If this gets big enough I'm thinking cash wage payments and black market
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"Every mania in financial history has been liquidity driven. You can go back to the South Sea Bubble or tulips in Holland. As long as the money is coming in, everything is fine."
- Raymond DeVoe, Dec. 11, 1995
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Maxi
Posts: 129
Incept: 2009-10-13
Lander, WY
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"When someone loses everything and has nothing to lose, they lose it" -- Dr. Gerald Celente
Every financial person dealing with the general public should have this posted on his/her terminal and consider it when "helping" someone.
It gives me the chills thinking about the seething anger that must be just below the surface, not only in America but globally.
:(
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Maurevel
Posts: 473
Incept: 2009-06-14
Canada
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Quote:If this gets big enough I'm thinking cash wage payments and black market Actually, my bet is on something a lot more violent. Put it this way, I would not want to be working in a back that is sending collections agencies after people who lost everything and are contemplating putting an end to it all. I am surprised this hasn't happened already. |
Micronin127
Posts: 1181
Incept: 2008-01-21
Swampscott, MA
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The whole point of HAMP and all the other loan modification programs was to get strapped homeowners to voluntarily convert their non-recourse loans into recourse loans.
It clearly wasn't to help homeowners. Can we at least agree on that?
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Financelizard
Posts: 6
Incept: 2008-12-09
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Credit card debt can apparently be equally hazardous to default on. I know a person in Indiana who racked up large credit card debt. He consulted a lawyer when the bank sent him a notice they were taking his case to court (due to lack of payment). His lawyer informed him the bank could force the sale of his home. He would receive a minimum of 15% of the proceeds and the rest would go to satisfy the credit card debt.
The interesting point here for me is that I thought a credit card was basically an un-secured debt and that is why you pay a higher interest rate than a mortgage. If the bank can force the sale of your home to collect the credit card debt, than what is the justification for the higher rates?
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Genesis
Posts: 130663
Incept: 2007-06-26
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It's state-dependent. In some cases they can **** with you and in others they cannot. In some states (Florida being one) your primary residence has a 100% bankruptcy exemption (which is why OJ moved here!)
This is yet another reason why you need competent legal advice when you get your tit in the wringer with these clowns. They DO have lawyers and they DO know how far they can go (although they will also LIE about what they can and can't do, so you need to be independently armed!)
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Maxi
Posts: 129
Incept: 2009-10-13
Lander, WY
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I mentioned to Hubby as he was leaving for work about this. He said that he has no sympathy for any of these people. He said, "aren't they the same Americans that gave you a blank stare or laughed when you attempted to discuss the coming disaster...even today no one gives a d**m...".
I must admit that I have given up on discussing anything with anyone, as I still get the blank stare or worse the old "I don't want to hear anything negative".
He is just so hard nosed about all of this.
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Curbyourrisk
Posts: 3587
Incept: 2008-08-19
Farmingdale, NY
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Maxi....No one wants to talk to me anymore either.
My wife hates when I sit down in front the computer and walks out of the room when she see the Ticker Forum pop up.
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Time is up.
I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no Santa Claus, the tooth fairy does not exist and American justice does not involve the courts.
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Leicestersq
Posts: 221
Incept: 2009-10-12
UK
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I am not sure that you can blame the banks for trying to get the money they are owed back through the courts.
After all, if they have no legal redress against defaulters, then there is no banking industry.
They have a fiduciariy duty, do they not, to seek redress, where legally permitted? To not do so would be against the law.
I am not saying that all banksters are squeeky clean angels, but where there is a debt, reasonably incurred, and the debtor has the means to contribute towards that debt, the banks have to pursue them through the courts.
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R2judge
Posts: 571
Incept: 2008-04-13
Burbank CA
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This is yet another reason why you need competent legal advice when you get your tit in the wringer with these clowns. They DO have lawyers and they DO know how far they can go (although they will also LIE about what they can and can't do, so you need to be independently armed!)
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Independently armed- sounds like a plug for the Second Amendment.
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Ilmaverick
Posts: 93
Incept: 2009-01-27
FEMA Region V
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I'm beginning to see "strategic defaults" as the J6P version of "extend and pretend". And a particularly dumbass "business" decision in most cases IMO.
If the banksters want their money, they'll just change the rules and get it. They have a bigger lobby and a bigger legal department than the average Joe. There is no denying that.
In the end it seems that most will end up a bigger debt slave than they were before a "strategic" default.
Count me out. I you were dumbass enough to get yourself into neck-level debt and tried to live a lifestyle beyond your means, and then the TSHTF for that person financially...you'll get no sympathy from me.
The ONLY way (it seems) to stick it to the bankers is to have no debt, and pay cash for everything.
A "strategic" default is just going to take someone from "broke" to "even more broke".
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Economy says, White House worse than expected.
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Genesis
Posts: 130663
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Bankruptcy kills most deficiency judgments. And qualified retirement accounts are generally exempt from Bankruptcy invasion.
The problem is that most people want their cake and to eat it too. Kinda like they did on the way up eh?
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Wisc-xc
Posts: 5524
Incept: 2007-07-14
outside chicago
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**** the banksters. Had they done their due diligence and made sure that the borrower had, say, 20% skin in the game instead of exotic loans at 100%+ LTV, many of which were no doc, then they wouldn't need to waste time on this legal bat over the head ****.
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Financelizard
Posts: 6
Incept: 2008-12-09
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Leicestersq - Yes, I think banks have an obligation to protect the loan. But it needs to be balanced against the type of loan and rate charged. Credit cards are higher risk loans to a bank than a mortgage. Therefore, instead of charging 5% for the loan, they charge much higher rates to offset their risk.
My point here is how can a bank charge a much higher rate for the credit card loan (up to 20%) and than have the same recourse as a mortgage lender. If the credit card default risk to the banker is the same as a mortgage default, than IMHO, the loan rate should be the same.
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R2judge
Posts: 571
Incept: 2008-04-13
Burbank CA
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<<The whole point of HAMP and all the other loan modification programs was to get strapped homeowners to voluntarily convert their non-recourse loans into recourse loans.
It clearly wasn't to help homeowners. Can we at least agree on that?>>
I don't know about anyone else, but i can.
Right now, my bank seems very interested in having me take out a home equity line of credit. They even went as far as calling me at work to ask if i wanted to do so. I know they are not doing it for my benefit and i suspect it is not simply because it is a routine sales pitch. I feel an alterior motive, other than simply them wanting me to borrow money.
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R2judge
Posts: 571
Incept: 2008-04-13
Burbank CA
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<<If the banksters want their money, they'll just change the rules and get it. They have a bigger lobby and a bigger legal department than the average Joe. There is no denying that.
In the end it seems that most will end up a bigger debt slave than they were before a "strategic" default.>>
Science has still to this day failed to get blood out of a turnip.
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Moroni
Posts: 2182
Incept: 2008-12-03
New York, NY
Banned
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R2judge wrote..Science has still to this day failed to get blood out of a turnip. I agree, which is why this paragraph in the Bloomberg article makes sense: Quote:“Walking away from a property comes with a cost, especially for people who otherwise have good credit,” Tolchinsky said in an interview. “The bank is going to pull your credit report, and if you’re current on your other bills they are going to come after you and potentially ruin you.” They're checking that turnip for a little blood.
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"Those institutions and individuals who insist upon clinging to the dying past will wither with it. Those who understand the death process will not mourn the passing of the old,
but instead celebrate the birth of the new paradigm." - Gerald Celente, Trends Journal Q12010, Page 20
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Blurtman
Posts: 563
Incept: 2009-01-24
Banned
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And yet Tishman Speyer is off the hook for their Stuyvesant Town default. Perhaps individuals should incorporate before buying their next house.
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I have a reading comprehension problem and the owner banned me for repeatedly displaying it after being warned.
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Newbtrader
Posts: 4445
Incept: 2007-08-24
Bubbleville, VA
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Great ticker! A good friend who has dealt with many bank repos/etc. has said exactly the same thing here in VA. Many people THINK they're magically off the hook if they default or do a short sale. That's very much NOT THE CASE. Banks simply aren't pursuing the money AT THAT TIME, but the door is very much left open, should you come into some money, buy a new house, etc. etc. etc.
Consult a lawyer folks if you're considering the default/short sale route! Ya it's not free, but well worth the money spent imo. (I ain't no lawyer btw). You want to make sure you CYA! (cover your ass)
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"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -Thomas Jefferson
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Randy123
Posts: 5767
Incept: 2008-09-24
Earth
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Time for debtors prisons.
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China is the Enemy. Wake Up.
New Normal. Same As The Old Awful.
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Jjm
Posts: 187
Incept: 2009-11-10
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Quote:And qualified retirement accounts are generally exempt from Bankruptcy invasion. True, for the time being. But what if a debtor was on the receiving end of some kind of government-funded assistance? With a few mods to the banking regulations, I can see this scenario unfolding: 1) Debtor is unable to pay 2) Federal assistance is given, either directly or through a bank 3) No good, debtor defaults anyway and declares bankruptcy 4) Since the debtor received taxpayer assistance, the debt is considered in the same category as taxes due the IRS, or a student loan 5) BOHICA, and all your property and IRAs are belong to us. We saw what the banks were able to do when Congress revised the BK laws a couple of years ago. I suspect they aren't finished yet.
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"In a mania, all investments are at the mercy of the greater fool. As in: if you can’t find one, you’re it."
-- Alex Daley
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Misterrc
Posts: 6
Incept: 2008-11-20
New Hampshire
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This is when you go sit by the front door with your shotgun and wait for the bankers to come and "collect".  |
Jjm
Posts: 187
Incept: 2009-11-10
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Quote:This is when you go sit by the front door with your shotgun and wait for the bankers to come and "collect" Brave talk, but here is how it goes down when Uncle Sam comes a knockin' http://wiki.freetalklive.com/images/9/94....BTW, we should all sleep better knowing that Eric "hero of Waco" Holder is now our Attorney General.
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"In a mania, all investments are at the mercy of the greater fool. As in: if you can’t find one, you’re it."
-- Alex Daley
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